Interesting discussion with a sound guy last night….

[mystixboi]

So my band played at a pretty high profile venue last night that hosts national and international acts. They have performers 5 nights a week.

As we were setting up for soundcheck, the sound guy and I were talking. I asked him if he saw a lot of acts going digital. He told me that the only acts he really sees using digital amps are bands that only play every few weeks and that touring acts still use tube amps.

I don’t see many major acts anymore but a lot of the bands I play shows with run HX, quad cortex, etc. I know Metallica runs Fractal.

What are you seeing out there? Just curious.

[NinjaRaf]

My experience, at least here in town, is it's pretty mixed. Local guys are still largely doing half stacks, but some are definitely running direct. No cabs on stage, even. Then the "bigger" (lol...death metal) bands that come through are pretty evenly split. Fit for an Autopsy still running their Mesa rigs, Ingested is from the UK, but the few times I've seen them, it's been digital. Maybe makes more sense in that context because they have to fly from over seas. Arsis was digital, Cannibal Corpse using Mesas, Revocation using EVH. Though I guess those aren't really smaller bands.

I think it just comes down to the band itself, and to some degree even the individual player, but I really haven't seen a band with 2 guitar players using different types of rigs. But a lot of these local guys are gigging once a month, maybe, so when you aren't playing super often, you for sure want your big ass cab and heavy as balls head behind you just fucking every one in the crowd right in the ears. I certainly would not be getting on stage without a real amp...that is half the fun of being on stage. Just being able to crank that fucker up and have that sound beating the fuck out of the back of your skull.

I know some dudes who can't physically move a half stack anymore for various reasons...injuries, health, whatever, so digital works great for them. But I think both players in the band, assuming 2 players, have to be on board.

TLDR: Mostly tube stuff...lot's of Mesa, Peavey, EVH...handful of digital rigs that seem to be the whole band.

[GuitarBilly]

I tend to agree with him, to a point. The scenes that I am seeing using modeling are:

Modern metal/djent
Legacy acts like Metallica/Def Leppard/Journey etc
Cover/bar/wedding bands
Pop music.

Other than that, I don't see much. Modern hard rock bands like Mammoth, Dirty Honey, Alter Bridge etc are all amps. Doom/stoner, amps. Jam bands, amps. Blues etc, amps.
I just played an all-day festival last weekend. 2 stages From 1pm to 12am. 20 bands in total, all original. 2 bands used modeling. The venue had backline cabs and we all brought our heads/pedals.

Another good example was the M3 festival a few months ago. It was around 15 bands in 2 days and again, 2 bands used modeling (one was a Journey cover band they added on the last minute because Extreme had to cancel it due to Nuno injuries, the other was great white). All other bands used amps. Some brought their own rigs while others used the backline rig (DSLs).

Modeling is not as widespread as people in some forums want you to believe it is. Same with Gibson QC issues, Epiphone bashing etc etc. Mostly forum folklore.

Have you ever been to a car enthusiast forum? By reading it, you'd think everyone drives/wants a manual. And yet, they represent 2% of cars on the road.

The modeling community at forums are very much the same way. By reading what they're saying, it would appear that playing an amp is the guitar equivalent of using a VCR. It is not. Most players have a guitar/amp rig they like and they just plug it in and make music.

So I tend to believe he's not seeing that big of a change in gear from touring acts.

[screamingdaisy]

In my experience, the idea that everyone is going digital only exists on the internet. I don’t see it on the local level. Ignoring beginner amps, the few bands I’ve seen that lean that way trend towards prog, where I think it’s more accepted because a number of the groundbreaking prog bands use digital.

Now, I’m not saying it doesn’t exist (one guitar in my band is digital), it’s just not as common as the internet likes to say it is.

[RaceU4her]

the only shows ive been to recently are distortion free jam bands in one of the three or four big clubs we have in town because thats all they book every night, ive not seen any more than a 1x12 fender style combo in years

[Dave]

We never see this shit aside from the bigger tribute acts that are clearly there to make people dance and are very much a music business. I understand their position because they need perfect mix every time and they're professionals.

[linthat22]

Wait, so Metallica uses Fractal and Megadeth uses Neural Quad Cortex..... Do you guys think for bigger acts like them it boils down to weight while touring?

[NinjaRaf]

Wait, so Metallica uses Fractal and Megadeth uses Neural Quad Cortex..... Do you guys think for bigger acts like them it boils down to weight while touring?

I dunno...I understand this even less at that level. These bands have entire staff dedicated to moving all their shit. It just makes no sense.

[RaceU4her]

Wait, so Metallica uses Fractal and Megadeth uses Neural Quad Cortex..... Do you guys think for bigger acts like them it boils down to weight while touring?

iron maiden is using axe's now too which is causing an uproar. i watched this video recently with the rival sons dude whos not exactly a band id associate with modeling using a helix now, he talks about it at 20:00. i really dont want to get into modeling with all the gear ive acquired but it is really starting to get tempting to me, im fighting the urge lol

[GuitarBilly]

Wait, so Metallica uses Fractal and Megadeth uses Neural Quad Cortex..... Do you guys think for bigger acts like them it boils down to weight while touring?

No it doesn't. These guys carry their entire stage with them. They could have 8 4x12s each and it would be nothing but a drop in the bucket in terms of extra weight.


I will never understand why these bands are doing this. You compare their sound today vs what they sounded like back when they were using amps and it's sad.

If they use for consistency I guess it works because these days their live sound is consistently bad.

[RaceU4her]

Wait, so Metallica uses Fractal and Megadeth uses Neural Quad Cortex..... Do you guys think for bigger acts like them it boils down to weight while touring?

No it doesn't. These guys carry their entire stage with them. They could have 8 4x12s each and it would be nothing but a drop in the bucket in terms of extra weight.


I will never understand why these bands are doing this. You compare their sound today vs what they sounded like back when they were using amps and it's sad.

If they use for consistency I guess it works because these days their live sound is consistently bad.

well to be fair, i was fully convinced they must have used the axe's on this last album upon first listen because the guitars sound so thin and "modeler" to me but no, vintage jose's among others maybe they need a new patch or however it works with those things. i agree though, i cant really understand these huge bands who can use whatever they want using them, other than they actually believe they are as good or better like rival sons dude seems to think which is causing my intrigue.

[screamingdaisy]

Wait, so Metallica uses Fractal and Megadeth uses Neural Quad Cortex..... Do you guys think for bigger acts like them it boils down to weight while touring?

For Metallica, it was originally about weight. They used AxeFX for the Antarctic gig, where shipping gear was uber-expensive, so they did everything they could to keep costs down. They didn't even run a PA, just gave everyone wireless headphones.

That gig opened the doors to experimenting with AxeFX, however having watched/read various interviews with Metallica's FOH tech and guitar tech it's about consistency than weight.

With analogue, having multiple rigs on multiple continents that all sound slightly different was a headache. With the Axe they can make a change in one location, then easily port it over to every other rig without having to tweak each one individually.

As for Megadeth, wouldn't be surprised if he used Quad Cortex because Metallica used AxeFX.

[screamingdaisy]

well to be fair, i was fully convinced they must have used the axe's on this last album upon first listen because the guitars sound so thin and "modeler" to me but no, vintage jose's among others maybe they need a new patch or however it works with those things. i agree though, i cant really understand these huge bands who can use whatever they want using them, other than they actually believe they are as good or better like rival sons dude seems to think which is causing my intrigue.

Hammett said he used the AxeFX for his leads. Not sure if it was blended, but he said he liked his live tone and it sped things up.

I felt the guitars were thinner in an attempt to sound more KIA/RTL.

[RaceU4her]

Wait, so Metallica uses Fractal and Megadeth uses Neural Quad Cortex..... Do you guys think for bigger acts like them it boils down to weight while touring?

For Metallica, it was originally about weight. They used AxeFX for the Antarctic gig, where shipping gear was uber-expensive, so they did everything they could to keep costs down. They didn't even run a PA, just gave everyone wireless headphones.

That gig opened the doors to experimenting with AxeFX, however having watched/read various interviews with Metallica's FOH tech and guitar tech it's about consistency than weight.

With analogue, having multiple rigs on multiple continents that all sound slightly different was a headache. With the Axe they can make a change in one location, then easily port it over to every other rig without having to tweak each one individually.

As for Megadeth, wouldn't be surprised if he used Quad Cortex because Metallica used AxeFX.

Megadeth might have been using Axe's before metallica even, i saw them back in i think 2010 or so and they already a rack filled with them, that was the first time i actually saw one of them in person

[RaceU4her]

Hammett said he used the AxeFX for his leads.

i dont think i even made it to the solo's in any of the songs to actually hear

[GuitarBilly]

Wait, so Metallica uses Fractal and Megadeth uses Neural Quad Cortex..... Do you guys think for bigger acts like them it boils down to weight while touring?

For Metallica, it was originally about weight. They used AxeFX for the Antarctic gig, where shipping gear was uber-expensive, so they did everything they could to keep costs down. They didn't even run a PA, just gave everyone wireless headphones.

That gig opened the doors to experimenting with AxeFX, however having watched/read various interviews with Metallica's FOH tech and guitar tech it's about consistency than weight.

With analogue, having multiple rigs on multiple continents that all sound slightly different was a headache. With the Axe they can make a change in one location, then easily port it over to every other rig without having to tweak each one individually.

As for Megadeth, wouldn't be surprised if he used Quad Cortex because Metallica used AxeFX.

Yeah you're right that's the justification. But it's a sure way to sound thin on all 5 continents.

It's not like they need a ton of different sounds. Metallica could play their entire set with a pair of Dual Rec or Mark VIIs each. For effects, they need a chorus for cleans and delay for solos (oh and wah ) It's not hard to carry this stuff. How much the lightning trusses, giant screens and custom stage they travel with weight vs a guitar rig? And theirFractal rigs are enormous anyway.


That is Kirk's rig (old picture, it's been updated with the newest version, but it's still the same rack):



Not exactly portable. And why a dedicated Axe Fx for crunch and another one for clean? Can't one unit do both? Just non-sense. The problem with these bands is that they become corporation and eventually you get those Six Sigma types making ridiculous decisions and selling them to the CEOs.
Just get a pair of heads, a few pedal and go.



This is what a great sounding Metallica rig looked like:


Looks smaller than the Fractal system to me. Get a couple of those and go.

[RaceU4her]

Wait, so Metallica uses Fractal and Megadeth uses Neural Quad Cortex..... Do you guys think for bigger acts like them it boils down to weight while touring?

For Metallica, it was originally about weight. They used AxeFX for the Antarctic gig, where shipping gear was uber-expensive, so they did everything they could to keep costs down. They didn't even run a PA, just gave everyone wireless headphones.

That gig opened the doors to experimenting with AxeFX, however having watched/read various interviews with Metallica's FOH tech and guitar tech it's about consistency than weight.

With analogue, having multiple rigs on multiple continents that all sound slightly different was a headache. With the Axe they can make a change in one location, then easily port it over to every other rig without having to tweak each one individually.

As for Megadeth, wouldn't be surprised if he used Quad Cortex because Metallica used AxeFX.

Yeah you're right that's the justification. But it's a sure way to sound thin on all 5 continents.

It's not like they need a ton of different sounds. Metallica could play their entire set with a pair of Dual Rec or Mark VIIs each. For effects, they need a chorus for cleans and delay for solos (oh and wah ) It's not hard to carry this stuff. How much the lightning trusses, giant screens and custom stage they travel with weight vs a guitar rig? And theirFractal rigs are enormous anyway.


That is Kirk's rig (old picture, it's been updated with the newest version, but it's still the same rack):



Not exactly portable. And why a dedicated Axe Fx for crunch and another one for clean? Can't one unit do both? Just non-sense. The problem with these bands is that they become corporation and eventually you get those Six Sigma types making ridiculous decisions and selling them to the CEOs.
Just get a pair of heads, a few pedal and go.



This is what a great sounding Metallica rig looked like:


Looks smaller than the Fractal system to me. Get a couple of those and go.

lol yeah i dont know, i would think that rack could be the bands whole rig, bass player included. i thought the axe was capable of patches for each song with multiple amps and the world class effects so im not sure what one would need multiple of them for? none of these huge racks make any sense to me, they would just give me anxiety, im the dude that would be rolling in with a half stack with three pedals sitting on the head to play an arena

[GuitarBilly]

lol yeah i dont know, i would think that rack could be the bands whole rig, bass player included. i thought the axe was capable of patches for each song with multiple amps and the world class effects so im not sure what one would need multiple of them for? none of these huge racks make any sense to me, they would just give me anxiety, im the dude that would be rolling in with a half stack with three pedals sitting on the head to play an arena

No, that's Kirk's rack only, they have 3 of these on the road. And cabs! They still use cabs onstage. So there is literally zero weight saving. Except maybe for the massive weight of a few SM57s

I like racks although I moved away from them and I am sticking with pedals these days. But I'd think the whole point of having an unit like this would be not to need a giant rack.

[screamingdaisy]

lol yeah i dont know, i would think that rack could be the bands whole rig, bass player included. i thought the axe was capable of patches for each song with multiple amps and the world class effects so im not sure what one would need multiple of them for? none of these huge racks make any sense to me, they would just give me anxiety, im the dude that would be rolling in with a half stack with three pedals sitting on the head to play an arena

I think each guitarist gets two plus a backup.

The idea is that they switch between two Axe so there's zero dropouts when they change patches. I don't know how big a deal that is since I don't use one, but I guess it's enough for them to continue to switch between two. They don't really have a shortage of money to throw at it.

They did the same thing when Hetfield ran Triaxis preamps.

[GuitarBilly]

wait... the AxeFX has dropouts when changing patches??

[screamingdaisy]

This picture sums up why I haven't gone digital.

[screamingdaisy]

wait... the AxeFX has dropouts when changing patches??

No idea, but that's the reason they gave.

[RaceU4her]

wait... the AxeFX has dropouts when changing patches??

No idea, but that's the reason they gave.

that sounds crazy, so if i want to use a JC120 patch for cleans and recto for distortion theres gonna be a dropout switching?? that cant be?

[RaceU4her]

i was unaware devin was a big Axe guy, his bands axe rig is more what i picture a "shipping friendly" rig to look like


https://www.guitarworld.com/news/devin- ... gital-gear

[GuitarBilly]

I love Devin but his music is so dense with multiple overdubs and tracks I don't think it matters what he uses. In fact a modeling rig probably makes sense in that scenario.