Direct Recording / Amp Sim guys - Help me out!

[Noizemaker]

So, lately I've been trying to direct record my guitar, but my tone just blows a fucking bag of dicks no matter what.
Going guitar > Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 interface > FL Studio. Recording 2 tracks, played back in stereo.
I have Guitar Rig 5, plus various LePou and Ignite amp sims.
My tone sounds like the thinnest, tinniest, piece of shit crate combo amp ever.
What the fucking fuck?

Somebody help me pls.
Thanks

[Markdude]

Post a clip and/or describe your plugin chain/settings in more detail.

[RIFF]

So, lately I've been trying to direct record my guitar, but my tone just blows a fucking bag of dicks no matter what.
Going guitar > Focusrite Scarlet 2i2 interface > FL Studio. Recording 2 tracks, played back in stereo.
I have Guitar Rig 5, plus various LePou and Ignite amp sims.
My tone sounds like the thinnest, tinniest, piece of shit crate combo amp ever.
What the fucking fuck?

Somebody help me pls.
Thanks

Right there... anyone who says that is OBVIOUSLY smokin crack!

Nah really, Ive got the 2i2. What pickup you feeding it? My breed is too strong & peaks it, so I use my guitar with a 59 - Ignite Emissary - Ignites Impulse loader. It sounds good, but seriously, this shit just bugs me. The lag throws my ass off. Or I can record dry, but its uninspiring. Consequently, theres a lot of noise in my house.

[fretless]

FL studio gave me problems and I dumped it quick , didn't seem to be a great "guitar " program and for me had waay to much learning cuve . Your interface and plugins should be fine . Are you tracking at 16 bit , though it shouldn't have a noticeable affect it might . I can't say it will solve your problem but maybe one of the "normal" programs like Cubase or Pro tools will have better results ? So to sum it up . I don't know but good luck .

[Devin]

"thinnest, tinniest, piece of shit crate combo amp ever" makes me think you neglected to add an impulse/speaker sim to the end of your VST chain

[nightflameauto]

"thinnest, tinniest, piece of shit crate combo amp ever" makes me think you neglected to add an impulse/speaker sim to the end of your VST chain

Very first thought that came to my mind too. What is your plugin chain?

[Noizemaker]

Nope, I use the cab sims in guitar rig usually. Although, I've been able to fashion an almost useable impulse from a reverb plugin.

My chain goes:

Guitar > 2i2 > Guitar Rig

or

Guitar > 2i2> Lepou456 > Guitar Rig (without an amp sim)

I typically use an EMG 81 in the bridge position for recording.

Hopefully this clears some things up.

[Noizemaker]

FL studio gave me problems and I dumped it quick , didn't seem to be a great "guitar " program and for me had waay to much learning cuve . Your interface and plugins should be fine . Are you tracking at 16 bit , though it shouldn't have a noticeable affect it might . I can't say it will solve your problem but maybe one of the "normal" programs like Cubase or Pro tools will have better results ? So to sum it up . I don't know but good luck .

I use FL, because it is great for the other styles of music that I make and I am very used to it.
While its not a typical "recording" DAW, it is definitely up to the industry standards as far as sound quality, that is proven fact.

Not sure if I'm tracking in 16bit or not...

I have noticed that I get a tad bit better sound when I use the "Line" input on the 2i2 as opposed to the "Instrument" input, its not a drastic difference tho...

[nightflameauto]

Second guess: what's your levels?

When you hit a big hard chord, what's the db meter top out at in the DAW? You want to be around -20. I've found once you head north of -10 things start to get harsh and ugly really fast, and much above -15 gets tough to work with in a mix. I'll even go as low as -25 for some things just to leave plenty of headroom.

[Noizemaker]

Second guess: what's your levels?

When you hit a big hard chord, what's the db meter top out at in the DAW? You want to be around -20. I've found once you head north of -10 things start to get harsh and ugly really fast, and much above -15 gets tough to work with in a mix. I'll even go as low as -25 for some things just to leave plenty of headroom.

Typically its around -5db. I typically mix at that kind of volume.

I did however turn it down (post plugins) to see if it would make a difference, and I did not hear one.

[Loins of Fire]

I dont think input levels would make that much of a difference but there's no reason to track that hot. You're volume comes from the mastering process.

Don't think you're ever going to get an amazing tone with guitar rig but you can get a passable one when it's in a mix with other instruments.

A proper guitar setup can make a world of difference also. Start at the source.

[JerEvil]

Take the plunge and try buying an AMT Legend series pedal used and see if the results are any better. Make sure to add a cab impulse.

[nightflameauto]

Second guess: what's your levels?

When you hit a big hard chord, what's the db meter top out at in the DAW? You want to be around -20. I've found once you head north of -10 things start to get harsh and ugly really fast, and much above -15 gets tough to work with in a mix. I'll even go as low as -25 for some things just to leave plenty of headroom.

Typically its around -5db. I typically mix at that kind of volume.

I did however turn it down (post plugins) to see if it would make a difference, and I did not hear one.

Turning down post plugins doesn't help at all. The shitty noise comes from the interface (if that's the problem). A lot of digital inferfaces start introducing some odd artifacting and even digital distortion when they get pushed too close to 0. I'd try re-tracking a lot lower.

One other thing I'll say, I've heard some people have problems with the Scarlets when using active pickups and going direct. It's possible you're running into that issue.

[Noizemaker]

Second guess: what's your levels?

When you hit a big hard chord, what's the db meter top out at in the DAW? You want to be around -20. I've found once you head north of -10 things start to get harsh and ugly really fast, and much above -15 gets tough to work with in a mix. I'll even go as low as -25 for some things just to leave plenty of headroom.

Typically its around -5db. I typically mix at that kind of volume.

I did however turn it down (post plugins) to see if it would make a difference, and I did not hear one.

Turning down post plugins doesn't help at all. The shitty noise comes from the interface (if that's the problem). A lot of digital inferfaces start introducing some odd artifacting and even digital distortion when they get pushed too close to 0. I'd try re-tracking a lot lower.

One other thing I'll say, I've heard some people have problems with the Scarlets when using active pickups and going direct. It's possible you're running into that issue.

I can never win, can I?

[nightflameauto]

Could add a dedicated DI box to the chain. I just grabbed a used whirlwind IMP 2 used for $25, so it's not a huge dent in the wallet.

Sometimes even something as simple as tossing a pedal between the guitar and interface can bring the levels back in line. Experiment a bit and see if what you can do. The big thing is, you want a really crystal clear guitar tone going into the DAW (provided you aren't using a drive pedal of some type before the interface). Leave all the plugins off and see how clear and clean the guitar sounds coming in. If it's not really clean, something is wrong somewhere.

[Ostinato Rubato]

Hang in there Nick. You have really cool ideas with your music. fuck... I wish I had known you were struggling before I gave raffled off my old but really good interface a couple weeks ago. It went to a good home and all, but still. You do seem to have bad luck spells. Woulda been nice to help you out.

Maybe sell the scarlet and get something else like a Mackie Blackjack. Or, it's possible Markdude still has his used one. PM him.

[Markdude]

If anything, active pickups are actually the better option for the Scarlett because they're low impedance, so you can use the Line mode (rather than Hi-Z/Instrument) on the Scarlett with no high end loss and benefit from the extra headroom. It's passive pickups that can be a problem with the Scarlett since it has WAY too much gain in Hi-Z mode and will clip the input really easily. I didn't dig the Scarlett for that reason (and I don't think its converters or preamps sound that great), but it should still be adequate for recording stuff that sounds passable (unless you're clipping the input with low and medium gain amp sim tones (it's generally not that noticeable with really high gain sims)), but if you know your way around reading levels, you'd know if that was the problem.

A DI box can solve the clipping problem if you have it, but once again, just getting a PASSABLE tone out of sims (not necessarily great, but at least not fucked up sounding where it seems like something is wrong) should be more than doable with the Scarlett, especially for high gain amp sims.

I disagree with throwing down money on an AMT pedal. Maybe pick one up down the line just to try one (I definitely want to), but amp sims still shouldn't sound WRONG. Maybe they won't be your favorite tones in the world, but they shouldn't sound genuinely messed up unless there's a problem with your settings/chain, so throwing more money at the process isn't really necessary.

RIFF, have you adjusted your buffer size settings in the Scarlett's audio control panel? As long as your computer isn't absolutely ancient, you should be able to get the latency more than low enough to not be perceivable at all. Even if your computer is pretty damn old, it should probably be able to handle recording one track with a low buffer size. Are you sure you're using the Scarlett's ASIO drivers?

Nick, it might just be the IRs you're using. Even the good packs of them have so many positions that you have to try a LOT of them to find ones that sound good. Some are really oddball mic positions that would sound like shit in real life too. I haven't tried Guitar Rig in years but I remember not liking the tones very much. Download LePou's LeCab plugin (free) and search for the GuitarHack IRs (free) and try those out. Just use those instead of Guitar Rig if you're using one of the Ignite Amp sims, or if you want to use a Guitar Rig amp, turn off its cab component and then place LeCab after Guitar Rig in the chain.

A clip would help a lot though in determining whether something is actually legitimately wrong in the chain or if it's just the tone itself that isn't good.

[RIFF]

If anything, active pickups are actually the better option for the Scarlett because they're low impedance, so you can use the Line mode (rather than Hi-Z/Instrument) on the Scarlett with no high end loss and benefit from the extra headroom. It's passive pickups that can be a problem with the Scarlett since it has WAY too much gain in Hi-Z mode and will clip the input really easily. I didn't dig the Scarlett for that reason (and I don't think its converters or preamps sound that great), but it should still be adequate for recording stuff that sounds passable (unless you're clipping the input with low and medium gain amp sim tones (it's generally not that noticeable with really high gain sims)), but if you know your way around reading levels, you'd know if that was the problem.

A DI box can solve the clipping problem if you have it, but once again, just getting a PASSABLE tone out of sims (not necessarily great, but at least not fucked up sounding where it seems like something is wrong) should be more than doable with the Scarlett, especially for high gain amp sims.

I disagree with throwing down money on an AMT pedal. Maybe pick one up down the line just to try one (I definitely want to), but amp sims still shouldn't sound WRONG. Maybe they won't be your favorite tones in the world, but they shouldn't sound genuinely messed up unless there's a problem with your settings/chain, so throwing more money at the process isn't really necessary.

RIFF, have you adjusted your buffer size settings in the Scarlett's audio control panel? As long as your computer isn't absolutely ancient, you should be able to get the latency more than low enough to not be perceivable at all. Even if your computer is pretty damn old, it should probably be able to handle recording one track with a low buffer size. Are you sure you're using the Scarlett's ASIO drivers?

Nick, it might just be the IRs you're using. Even the good packs of them have so many positions that you have to try a LOT of them to find ones that sound good. Some are really oddball mic positions that would sound like shit in real life too. I haven't tried Guitar Rig in years but I remember not liking the tones very much. Download LePou's LeCab plugin (free) and search for the GuitarHack IRs (free) and try those out. Just use those instead of Guitar Rig if you're using one of the Ignite Amp sims, or if you want to use a Guitar Rig amp, turn off its cab component and then place LeCab after Guitar Rig in the chain.

A clip would help a lot though in determining whether something is actually legitimately wrong in the chain or if it's just the tone itself that isn't good.

I was about to say, a clip needs to be heard. It might be very telling!



Yeah Mark, my Focusrite drivers are up to date, 3 ms.. Lag is undetectable under normal conditions, & I have a fast computer, Intel quad core i5 3570, 16 gigs fast ram, geforce 660, Win 7, 64 bit with no extra junk running. But amp sims always seem to throw the feel off just enough to bother me.