Anyone want to critique this mix?

[Loins of Fire]

One of my older songs I re-recorded with my Kemper. Too bright?

Revised Mix
http://www.tonefinder.com/files/511404949391-For%20the%20Throat%20Master.mp3


Original Mix
http://www.tonefinder.com/files/911404586265-For%20the%20Throat%20Master.mp3

[nakedzen]

Guitars sound good to me. Cymbals on the other hand are way too bright imo.

Back off the limiter a bit, it's clipping, most noticeably around 1:00.

[Loins of Fire]

That's what I was thinking. Thanks.

I'll have to check out that clipping when I get home. I didn't notice it when I bounced it.

[EndTime]

Is a pretty crisp mix. The cymbals are off. I think they are bright cause there is zero body to them. Super fizzy. Like yo hi-passed up to 1k. Lol..

Also, the kit sounds like its From 3 different kits or sumthin. The cymbal work feels totally seperate from the drums. And the snare, especially during the squealie riff gets real loud and sits outside of everything. Its weird to me..

Also with all the mids scooped out , even tho i can hear the bass, its totally masked by the guitar's low end. I think itd be interesting if you can get the bass to cut thru where the guitars mids are missing. Kinda a grinding bass. . I mean it really does feel like And justice for all..

Also, i wonder if the mastering isnt really helping. Cause there is no punch whatsover. Its dead flat. But i can tell the kicks have some punch in them, but they are getting flatlined but what i assume is the mastering chain. Especially during the breaks, it would certainly benefit from some power and for it to really HIT when it comes back..

So idk, i would work on the cymbals and getting them to sound part of the kit. And if they are there thin and lack body, maybe look for different samples or if you've done processing to them, maybe take it completely off and see what that gives ya. When it comes to cymbals, the absolute most I'd do is a hi pass around 150hz or so. And if they are too bright I'd create a high shelf and just lower it a couple dbs. Its so easy to over do the eq on cymbals and get too much sizzle. And also real eaay to have too fast of an attack on say, a multiband comp on the drum buss, and create that splatty cymbal that has no definition and clarity. After all cymbal is an accent. There should be some explosion and decay.

The guitars seem pretty good to me, but definitely crispy high end and overall there isnt much low end power. I would really try to find the best bass guitar frequency and either get it to cut the in the mids, or find that right liw freq that beefs up the guitars and over all mix, cauae as it stands i hear it(kinda) but i never felt it..

And for the ending riff, maybe that extra meat would really help hit it home harder..

[Loins of Fire]

Is a pretty crisp mix. The cymbals are off. I think they are bright cause there is zero body to them. Super fizzy. Like yo hi-passed up to 1k. Lol..

Also, the kit sounds like its From 3 different kits or sumthin. The cymbal work feels totally seperate from the drums. And the snare, especially during the squealie riff gets real loud and sits outside of everything. Its weird to me..

Also with all the mids scooped out , even tho i can hear the bass, its totally masked by the guitar's low end. I think itd be interesting if you can get the bass to cut thru where the guitars mids are missing. Kinda a grinding bass. . I mean it really does feel like And justice for all..

Also, i wonder if the mastering isnt really helping. Cause there is no punch whatsover. Its dead flat. But i can tell the kicks have some punch in them, but they are getting flatlined but what i assume is the mastering chain. Especially during the breaks, it would certainly benefit from some power and for it to really HIT when it comes back..

So idk, i would work on the cymbals and getting them to sound part of the kit. And if they are there thin and lack body, maybe look for different samples or if you've done processing to them, maybe take it completely off and see what that gives ya. When it comes to cymbals, the absolute most I'd do is a hi pass around 150hz or so. And if they are too bright I'd create a high shelf and just lower it a couple dbs. Its so easy to over do the eq on cymbals and get too much sizzle. And also real eaay to have too fast of an attack on say, a multiband comp on the drum buss, and create that splatty cymbal that has no definition and clarity. After all cymbal is an accent. There should be some explosion and decay.

The guitars seem pretty good to me, but definitely crispy high end and overall there isnt much low end power. I would really try to find the best bass guitar frequency and either get it to cut the in the mids, or find that right liw freq that beefs up the guitars and over all mix, cauae as it stands i hear it(kinda) but i never felt it..

And for the ending riff, maybe that extra meat would really help hit it home harder..

Whoa man tons of good advice here. I appreciate you taking the time to write all of that out. One thing you are definitely right about is the high pass on the cymbals, I do have it set ridiculously high to make them more crisp but I guess they could use more body. Honestly I couldnt tell much of a difference with and without the high pass so I just kept it. Besides for that there is no drum processing going on, everything else is the stock superior drummer drum kit. As far as it sounding like 3 different kits that probably has a lot to do with me going a little overboard with humanizing the velocities. I literally randomized every hit in the whole song, but by a very, very small percentage. I think it sticks out more depending on the type of riff that is going on. I will try to mess with it.

For your other critiques its hard to tell what is a preference thing. You saying it sounds like AJFA kind of pleases me to be honest because I love the sound of that album. I think mine definitely has a more audible bass though. Taking a good chunk out of the low mids of the bass guitar was a recent change I made that made everything feel more tight and connected. Im not sure if Im going to mess with that too much but Im sure I will try. My previous mix had so much low end it made Crowbar albums sound thin so I tightened it up a lot.

And for the dynamics...yeah...its heavily compressed to say the least but I kind of feel for this style of music it fits. I want everything to be as tight and smooth as possible. I feel that too much dynamics would make it feel loose and disconnected. My master bus has a serious of multiple compressors, soft clippers and a limiter to achieve that loudness of modern mixes.

Thanks again for all the comments I will definitely look into each and every one of them.

[RustyMetal]

Wow, EndTime is waaay over my head with his analysis. What monitors and so forth are you listening thru to get such a detailed critique? ...besides the tons of experience and the magic ear, I mean.

[Walt]

Whoa! Fuckin baller riffing man!
Shit I got no criticism cuz I have no clue about recording, but that was some cool jammage!

[Loins of Fire]

Whoa! Fuckin baller riffing man!
Shit I got no criticism cuz I have no clue about recording, but that was some cool jammage!

Thank you kind sir!

[JiveTurkey]

Killer tune. It's funny that Endtime responded as I feel like you two are the most "extreme metal" clip posters on the board You coming from more of a tech'd out Pantera side of things where he seems to be more grind leaning.

I listened to the tune on my crap dell usb powered speakers and it sounded good to me. I will say I didn't hear a lot of bass guitar but that might be the vibe you are going for (AJFA references duly noted). Your guitar tones have a very hi-fi quality to them. Very defined with great clarity.

[Loins of Fire]

Killer tune. It's funny that Endtime responded as I feel like you two are the most "extreme metal" clip posters on the board You coming from more of a tech'd out Pantera side of things where he seems to be more grind leaning.

I listened to the tune on my crap dell usb powered speakers and it sounded good to me. I will say I didn't hear a lot of bass guitar but that might be the vibe you are going for (AJFA references duly noted). Your guitar tones have a very hi-fi quality to them. Very defined with great clarity.

Thanks man. Techy Pantera is a good way to describe it. Someone once said that it sounds like Exhorder which is kind of funny because up until that point I hadn't really listened to them. Now that I have been listening to them for a while I totally see the similarities yet they weren't an influence on me in any way.

[Ostinato Rubato]

my critique lacks the expertise of guys like EndTime.

Needs more bass.

[nakedzen]

And for the dynamics...yeah...its heavily compressed to say the least but I kind of feel for this style of music it fits. I want everything to be as tight and smooth as possible. I feel that too much dynamics would make it feel loose and disconnected. My master bus has a serious of multiple compressors, soft clippers and a limiter to achieve that loudness of modern mixes.

After a certain point you won't be making it louder, just more distorted, which I feel sort of has happened with this clip. Digital audio cannot go over the 0dB limit, all of the increase in volume after you brickwall it comes from the distortion adding harmonics to the sound.

Personally I feel it's better to add those harmonics before compressing the master, with tape saturation, harmonic exciters or just parallel distortion. Much more pleasing sound than digital clipping from a limiter.

[JerEvil]

I agree with most of the comments on cymbals, bass, etc.

I DO like the guitars though! Damn that Kemper gets great recorded tones.

[Loins of Fire]

And for the dynamics...yeah...its heavily compressed to say the least but I kind of feel for this style of music it fits. I want everything to be as tight and smooth as possible. I feel that too much dynamics would make it feel loose and disconnected. My master bus has a serious of multiple compressors, soft clippers and a limiter to achieve that loudness of modern mixes.

After a certain point you won't be making it louder, just more distorted, which I feel sort of has happened with this clip. Digital audio cannot go over the 0dB limit, all of the increase in volume after you brickwall it comes from the distortion adding harmonics to the sound.

Yeah i understand that. If there is any distortion it's coming from the low end. I honestly can't hear it to tell you the truth. When i reference it against other modern miXes it actually sounds cleaner. I know it has a lot more low end than most other mixes though.

The last mix i did of this had a -3 RMS average level which was mostly coming from the bass. I added a high pass on the master bus at 50 hz and now the average RMS level is -6. There is actually tons of low end on this mix, there is just more high end. I'm using a tape machine emulator which is giving it that sparkle. If I reMove it then it becomes one of the thickest mixes I've ever heard.

My point is that if there is any distortion I dont think it is coMing from a limiter or soft clipper, it's from having too much low end.

[Loins of Fire]

Hey dudes I took some of your advice and revised the mix. Any thoughts?

http://www.tonefinder.com/files/511404949391-For%20the%20Throat%20Master.mp3

Added more body and a high pass to cymbals
Raised level of bass guitar and gave it more mids for more grind
Removed compression from master bus
Removed tape saturation and much less high end overall

[nakedzen]

Sounds great! I'm still hearing some digital clipping artifacts on the guitars though (easiest to hear at around 0:40). Not at all so noticeable as on the first clip though, mostly quiet clicks and pops.

[Loins of Fire]

Thanks man. Now that I'm listening to them both back to back I gotta say I like the first one I posted more. When I reference them both against pro mixes the first one sounds like it's more in the ballpark to me. Maybe it's just a preference thing. Probably going to revert it back to my original mix and just fix the cymbals.

[Loins of Fire]

Sounds great! I'm still hearing some digital clipping artifacts on the guitars though (easiest to hear at around 0:40). Not at all so noticeable as on the first clip though, mostly quiet clicks and pops.

When you say digital clipping are you talking about distortion from pushing a limiter too hard or just some clicks and pops every once in a while? If it clicks and pops then it is probably just from punching in to pro tools. I dont know why it does that sometimes but it is an easy fix.

[nakedzen]

Sounds great! I'm still hearing some digital clipping artifacts on the guitars though (easiest to hear at around 0:40). Not at all so noticeable as on the first clip though, mostly quiet clicks and pops.

When you say digital clipping are you talking about distortion from pushing a limiter too hard or just some clicks and pops every once in a while? If it clicks and pops then it is probably just from punching in to pro tools. I dont know why it does that sometimes but it is an easy fix.

I think it's the limiter. But if you're getting clicks and pops with punch-ins do you have fade-ins and outs on the split point (or cross fades)? Because if you don't, that causes clicks. At least in Reaper you can put it to do a few ms long fades on splits by default through preferences.

[Loins of Fire]

Nah I don't have any fades for the punch ins and I know I should, just laziness on my part. I know some tracks have some pops when soloed but I figured the drums would be covering them up anyway so it wasn't worth the hassle. I know it's not hard to do in pro tools I just never do it.

[ihateyourguts]

All I gotta say is HOLY RIFFS. I can see that 90's metalcore influence shine very nice. That fucking ending riff. Makes me wanna punch some babies in the face. Only caveat would be that the song is too long but I have the attention span of a squirrel so that's a moot point.

As for the mix, I like how the guitars sound. Very tight tone and you can discern every note on the palm muted parts which is a plus. I like where the bass is sitting and the kick is very punchy which I love. Cymbals are definitely washed out and thin. I think that's about it and whatever the rest of the guys that are far more knowledgeable than me said.

[exafro]

I love that guitar tone. I can't comment on the mix because the riffing grabbed too much of my attention. Nice job man.

[Ostinato Rubato]

Listened through my phone and I'm noob at recording and mixing so my advice probably wouldn't be useful. Just wanted to say the the riffage and guitar tone is stellar.

I'm starting to work on getting an edgier more aggressive tone myself.

[Loins of Fire]

Thanks guys for all the compliments.