Another XXX clip but with an IR?!

[EndTime]

Bringing back 2007 HC. Anyway, I’ve been using the xxx a bunch lately. It’s always “around”, lol. I’ve used it for so long, that I still use it for shows even if I do think the 5153 el34 is better.

Anyway, since I’ve had this for so long I remembered I used to use this with eminence legend v12 speakers which had that smoothed out high end that many eminence do, but especially the v12. That works really well with the xxx. So I loaded up some of the Kohle IRs he made of the Emincence stuff. Believe I used mixtures of the cv75 and DV77. It’s maybe a bit boring but it does feel right to me as far as the xxx tone that I used for so long

Crunch channel boosted with a MXR modified OD, using my Strat with Duncan Blackouts

https://app.box.com/s/8b1t76fkrpx7z4zfmce6482oyohlemjp

[NinjaRaf]

Yeah, fuck, this sounds insane!

[thisguy]

Sounds great!

What's your setup? Reactive load? Preamp out? IR loader?

[EndTime]

Yeah, fuck, this sounds insane!

Definitely not bad. Lol

Sounds great!

What's your setup? Reactive load? Preamp out? IR loader?

Went into my mesa cabclone IR. It just took the direct out and used the IRs in software so I can try a bunch out

[VTM]

So much of your XXX stuff reminds me of Exodus. Is this your old ass XXX or did you get another?

[RaceU4her]

Shit rips

[GuitarBilly]

So much of your XXX stuff reminds me of Exodus. Is this your old ass XXX or did you get another?

Yeah, same. It's hard not to associate this tone with Exodus. Holt really made it into his signature tone for a while.

[EndTime]

So much of your XXX stuff reminds me of Exodus. Is this your old ass XXX or did you get another?

My original one I got shipped in an oversized box with NO anything as far as packing materials. Dude just plopped it in a box and sent it. Lol. Power tubes were broke but that was back in 2005 or so, so kinda “early” days of eBay and all the gear flipping. I know I got that one from you which I really wanted to have both kinds of tubes, but idk which one is the anomaly, mine or that one I got from you. I remember yours did have a blown Screen grid at the time so that affected it a bunch, but my original one is THE one. When I compared em my OG one just always sounded better.

. I lve heard countless times that people say “My xxx don’t sound like that” lol. I mean, it’s not leagues different but this one just has a certain “jump” and life to the tone. The notes JUMP out of the speakers. Best way I can describe how i “see” the tone in my head. I definitely won’t let this one go. Altho I DID at one point trade it to RAF and he didn’t like it, so I bought it back. One of the better decisions I made! Haha.

[EndTime]

So much of your XXX stuff reminds me of Exodus. Is this your old ass XXX or did you get another?

Yeah, same. It's hard not to associate this tone with Exodus. Holt really made it into his signature tone for a while.

That’s the other “funny” thing. So back on HC when Holt was using XXX, plenty of people were asking how he got his XXX to sound that way. And I actually recently did a search for sumthin and came to an old HC thread, and in that thread I commented, “I don’t know why people keep asking how he gets this tone. Mine sounds Just like this (referring to the exodus clip posted). Now, of course not exact but I heard straight away how to get that tone with my specific amp. Maybe there’s “good” years or sumthin. Idk. But as I said above, I’ve only had one other but when I a/b’d them mine was definitely the livelier one. By a solid margin. The other one once I got it running on all 4 power tubes sounded good still but it was flatter
Sounding. Just didn’t ever match what I got with mine..

[GuitarBilly]

Yeah I think that's true for a lot of tube amps, especially the older amps. It's crazy with 800s, Plexis etc.

Modern amps tend to be more consistent but there's still differences. DSLs are the same way, some are great and others are just okay.

I don't it's necessarily an year thing but just variations in component tolerance. Pots, caps etc always have some tolerance. Even if they're small, once you add up a 5% variation on a pot, another 5% on a cap and so on, across the whole circuit, yeah it's going to sound different.

I think the key is if you have a great unit, keep it. Selling it thinking "I can always buy another", yeah but it won't necessarily be the same.

I had a 50w DSL around '04 that was the best I've heard to this day and I had a lot of them.

Usually, if you get inside them you can make them sound close if you measure each component. Dave Friedman did that to Eddie's plexi so he could replicate it for him.

[colejustesen]

That sounds great! The Crunch channel is my favorite on that amp. I need to practice with IRs more. My results never sound this good.

Cole

[VTM]

So much of your XXX stuff reminds me of Exodus. Is this your old ass XXX or did you get another?

My original one I got shipped in an oversized box with NO anything as far as packing materials. Dude just plopped it in a box and sent it. Lol. Power tubes were broke but that was back in 2005 or so, so kinda “early” days of eBay and all the gear flipping. I know I got that one from you which I really wanted to have both kinds of tubes, but idk which one is the anomaly, mine or that one I got from you. I remember yours did have a blown Screen grid at the time so that affected it a bunch, but my original one is THE one. When I compared em my OG one just always sounded better.

. I lve heard countless times that people say “My xxx don’t sound like that” lol. I mean, it’s not leagues different but this one just has a certain “jump” and life to the tone. The notes JUMP out of the speakers. Best way I can describe how i “see” the tone in my head. I definitely won’t let this one go. Altho I DID at one point trade it to RAF and he didn’t like it, so I bought it back. One of the better decisions I made! Haha.

I remember Raf having your original XXX but didn't know you got it back. Speaking of SGRs, didn't Peavey update the XXX at some point (2003?) so it was less likely to blow screen grid resistors? Or maybe that was the JSX?

[thisguy]

Yeah, fuck, this sounds insane!

Definitely not bad. Lol

Sounds great!

What's your setup? Reactive load? Preamp out? IR loader?

Went into my mesa cabclone IR. It just took the direct out and used the IRs in software so I can try a bunch out

I didn't even realize/remember Mesa made a standalone unit.

[EndTime]

So much of your XXX stuff reminds me of Exodus. Is this your old ass XXX or did you get another?

My original one I got shipped in an oversized box with NO anything as far as packing materials. Dude just plopped it in a box and sent it. Lol. Power tubes were broke but that was back in 2005 or so, so kinda “early” days of eBay and all the gear flipping. I know I got that one from you which I really wanted to have both kinds of tubes, but idk which one is the anomaly, mine or that one I got from you. I remember yours did have a blown Screen grid at the time so that affected it a bunch, but my original one is THE one. When I compared em my OG one just always sounded better.

. I lve heard countless times that people say “My xxx don’t sound like that” lol. I mean, it’s not leagues different but this one just has a certain “jump” and life to the tone. The notes JUMP out of the speakers. Best way I can describe how i “see” the tone in my head. I definitely won’t let this one go. Altho I DID at one point trade it to RAF and he didn’t like it, so I bought it back. One of the better decisions I made! Haha.

I remember Raf having your original XXX but didn't know you got it back. Speaking of SGRs, didn't Peavey update the XXX at some point (2003?) so it was less likely to blow screen grid resistors? Or maybe that was the JSX?

Yeah he didn’t get along with it.

They did upgrade them at some point. I upgraded mine myself to the 1k ohm. Cause I did In fact blow them running el34s, Altho that was my newbness as I the bias control on those amps work in reverse. Meaning counterclockwise turns it UP. Rather than clockwise. So, when I switched to el34 tubes I thought i was turning the bias down and instead turned it to MAX, and within a minute that thing blew up! Lol. So I thought, we’ll I guess this whole upgrade SGR thing is real. Haha. I think yours had upgraded to 700k which is what PV does stock these days. So perhaps that one had em upgraded from factory. Not sure.

Yeah, fuck, this sounds insane!

Definitely not bad. Lol

Sounds great!

What's your setup? Reactive load? Preamp out? IR loader?

Went into my mesa cabclone IR. It just took the direct out and used the IRs in software so I can try a bunch out

I didn't even realize/remember Mesa made a standalone unit.

Yeah they had an absolutely horrific first attempt just called cabclone. Easily the worst thing Mesa ever put out. It was shockingly bad. Lol. But it was a resistive load rather than reactive and that seems to make a big difference. Their 2nd and 3rd attempts were the Cab clone IR(the one I have) and cab clone IRplus which also has an attenuator feature. These are solid, pretty standard to what is out there by other brands. Works well, allows you to load 16irs at a time, Altho it has a library folder where you can store hundreds but can only load 16 at a time. If I had my choice again I’d prolly just get a Torpedo, which no ironically, the tech used in the Mesa is from Thevmakers of the Torpedo. At least the IR engine is. But I can’t use WoS cabs… which would be nice I suppose..

[thisguy]

Yeah, fuck, this sounds insane!

Definitely not bad. Lol

Sounds great!

What's your setup? Reactive load? Preamp out? IR loader?

Went into my mesa cabclone IR. It just took the direct out and used the IRs in software so I can try a bunch out

I didn't even realize/remember Mesa made a standalone unit.

Yeah they had an absolutely horrific first attempt just called cabclone. Easily the worst thing Mesa ever put out. It was shockingly bad. Lol. But it was a resistive load rather than reactive and that seems to make a big difference. Their 2nd and 3rd attempts were the Cab clone IR(the one I have) and cab clone IRplus which also has an attenuator feature. These are solid, pretty standard to what is out there by other brands. Works well, allows you to load 16irs at a time, Altho it has a library folder where you can store hundreds but can only load 16 at a time. If I had my choice again I’d prolly just get a Torpedo, which no ironically, the tech used in the Mesa is from Thevmakers of the Torpedo. At least the IR engine is. But I can’t use WoS cabs… which would be nice I suppose..

I'm just getting started with all this. First I got a Torpedo CabM+ and I just got the Suhr Reactive Load. I intentionally wanted them to be separate so I could have option of putting the CabM+ on a pedalboard for a direct/no amp rig.

Two-Notes just had a sale on cabs and your clip made me realize I needed some Mesa cabs. I was having trouble deciding and the sale ended this morning so I just went ahead got the ones I was debating between. I got the Recto OS 4x12 slant and Recto Traditional 4x12 slant from both the Studio Legend Edition and World Tour Edition. I only had a few minutes to preview them yesterday before I bought them but the Studio versions seem to have a little more room sound to them and the World Tour versions sound more close miked. It may be possible to make the different versions sound alike but I didn't have time to try.

[NinjaRaf]

Yeah, cool amp, just wasn't really my thing.

[GuitarBilly]

If I had my choice again I’d prolly just get a Torpedo, which no ironically, the tech used in the Mesa is from Thevmakers of the Torpedo. At least the IR engine is. But I can’t use WoS cabs… which would be nice I suppose..

I think you already made the right choice. The load on the Torpedo Captor X sounds smaller than the load on my Suhr Reactive Load IR. I've compared the Suhr vs the Captor X, loaded with the exact same IR and the Suhr sounded better every time. And I am sure your Mesa load will sound better as well.
The Captor feels like a smaller cab. Like a 2x12 instead of a 4x12. Which is great for some things, but for hard rock and metal I'd take the Suhr, Mesa, Fryette etc over the Two Notes load any day.

And the WoS cabs... meh, they can be fun, I guess... but every time I try them I end up recording with an IR instead. I like the ones you gave me and I have some York Audio and Bogren packs that are also good. So I don't think you are missing much, tbh.. quite the contrary.

[EndTime]

If I had my choice again I’d prolly just get a Torpedo, which no ironically, the tech used in the Mesa is from Thevmakers of the Torpedo. At least the IR engine is. But I can’t use WoS cabs… which would be nice I suppose..

I think you already made the right choice. The load on the Torpedo Captor X sounds smaller than the load on my Suhr Reactive Load IR. I've compared the Suhr vs the Captor X, loaded with the exact same IR and the Suhr sounded better every time. And I am sure your Mesa load will sound better as well.
The Captor feels like a smaller cab. Like a 2x12 instead of a 4x12. Which is great for some things, but for hard rock and metal I'd take the Suhr, Mesa, Fryette etc over the Two Notes load any day.

And the WoS cabs... meh, they can be fun, I guess... but every time I try them I end up recording with an IR instead. I like the ones you gave me and I have some York Audio and Bogren packs that are also good. So I don't think you are missing much, tbh.. quite the contrary.

Interesting. I’m absolutely one who believes the load box effects tone as well. Not just the reactive Vs resistive either.

But the reason I mentioned that was most of my best results is using the IRs inside my DAW and just using the Cabclone to feed a dry signal. This is how I test which IRs I want to load in the Mesa but it seems whenever I use the Mesa with the IR and record the tones just don’t seem as good as the Software IR. And I admit I should have a better grasp on this but I know the Cabclone will truncate any IR longer than 100ms down to 100ms. While most IRs out there are 200ms or 500. I’ve even seen 1000ms. Generally I would assume longer is better. Hey now! Lol: but I haven’t truly looked into what gets affected when the Cabclone take a 500ms IR and truncates it down. My guess is it loses a bit of high end which is what I perceive when comparing the IR in the software in its “full” form, vs the truncated same IR from the Cabclone. That could be why the Mesa added a presence control o. The cab clone cause I find myself using it a lot more now that I’m using IRs a bit more often

[greatmutah]

If I had my choice again I’d prolly just get a Torpedo, which no ironically, the tech used in the Mesa is from Thevmakers of the Torpedo. At least the IR engine is. But I can’t use WoS cabs… which would be nice I suppose..

I think you already made the right choice. The load on the Torpedo Captor X sounds smaller than the load on my Suhr Reactive Load IR. I've compared the Suhr vs the Captor X, loaded with the exact same IR and the Suhr sounded better every time. And I am sure your Mesa load will sound better as well.
The Captor feels like a smaller cab. Like a 2x12 instead of a 4x12. Which is great for some things, but for hard rock and metal I'd take the Suhr, Mesa, Fryette etc over the Two Notes load any day.

And the WoS cabs... meh, they can be fun, I guess... but every time I try them I end up recording with an IR instead. I like the ones you gave me and I have some York Audio and Bogren packs that are also good. So I don't think you are missing much, tbh.. quite the contrary.

That part I bolded? I could never find a straight answer from anyone on this! Thst settles it. Im selling this captor I have and getting the Suhr.

[GuitarBilly]

If I had my choice again I’d prolly just get a Torpedo, which no ironically, the tech used in the Mesa is from Thevmakers of the Torpedo. At least the IR engine is. But I can’t use WoS cabs… which would be nice I suppose..

I think you already made the right choice. The load on the Torpedo Captor X sounds smaller than the load on my Suhr Reactive Load IR. I've compared the Suhr vs the Captor X, loaded with the exact same IR and the Suhr sounded better every time. And I am sure your Mesa load will sound better as well.
The Captor feels like a smaller cab. Like a 2x12 instead of a 4x12. Which is great for some things, but for hard rock and metal I'd take the Suhr, Mesa, Fryette etc over the Two Notes load any day.

And the WoS cabs... meh, they can be fun, I guess... but every time I try them I end up recording with an IR instead. I like the ones you gave me and I have some York Audio and Bogren packs that are also good. So I don't think you are missing much, tbh.. quite the contrary.

Interesting. I’m absolutely one who believes the load box effects tone as well. Not just the reactive Vs resistive either.

But the reason I mentioned that was most of my best results is using the IRs inside my DAW and just using the Cabclone to feed a dry signal. This is how I test which IRs I want to load in the Mesa but it seems whenever I use the Mesa with the IR and record the tones just don’t seem as good as the Software IR. And I admit I should have a better grasp on this but I know the Cabclone will truncate any IR longer than 100ms down to 100ms. While most IRs out there are 200ms or 500. I’ve even seen 1000ms. Generally I would assume longer is better. Hey now! Lol: but I haven’t truly looked into what gets affected when the Cabclone take a 500ms IR and truncates it down. My guess is it loses a bit of high end which is what I perceive when comparing the IR in the software in its “full” form, vs the truncated same IR from the Cabclone. That could be why the Mesa added a presence control o. The cab clone cause I find myself using it a lot more now that I’m using IRs a bit more often

In terns of IR length, the longer the IR the more information it will capture (obviously). So if you're using room mic IRs, the longer the better, since it will capture more of the room size, reflections etc. But even for that 100ms is enough in most cases.

But for closed mic IRs - which is what most of us use - it really doesn't make a difference. 20ms is what you need to capture a closed mic speaker. Anything over that, you can't really hear the difference. What you're hearing using the dry signal into the computer vs the using the IR inside Cabclone is most likely a difference in the amount of A/D/A conversions.

When you plug your amp into the load, that's an analog signal. If you use the load dry out, that signal remains analog until it hits your computer, where it's converted to digital.
That's a single A/D conversion.

If you load the IR into the Cabclone, the signal starts analog from your amp, then it goes through the Cabclone A/D converter to be processed by the IR. Then it goes to the Cabclone D/A converter to come out of the Cabclone, then it gets converted to digital again once it hits your interface. So that's an A/D/A/D process and that's how you hear the loss.

So yes, if possible it's always best to run a dry signal until it hits the computer. But it's not really related to IR length.
You can find software to truncate the IRs to different lengths and compare them within the same system.


Now, that's not to say that longer IRs are useless. If you're using IRs for things like actual room emulation (convolution reverb plugins), or acoustic guitar emulation, then the size of the IR is important because a lot of the room/material resonance requires a longer capture time.

But a closed micd guitar speaker is a immediate response and requires very little capture time. The only exception would be if you're close micing in a highly reflective room. Say if you want an IR of your cab being close micd in your bathroom... sure, you may need 100ms+ to capture that. But who the fuck wants to do that?

So there is a bit of marketing talk going with this IR length stuff when it comes with guitar cabs. It's not that the length doesn't matter at all, it does in some cases, but it doesn't matter for 99,9% of the IRs hard rock and metal guitar players actually use.

As for the actual load affecting the tone, yeah absolutely. It's very easy to hear the difference. The Fryette power load even has switches that alter the load curve (in the circuit, not through software) and you can hear in real time how it affects the sound of the IR.
The Mesa load is very well voiced and superior to the Two Notes load in my opinion. At least for heavier music.
For stuff like alternative, country etc I could see someone preferring the Two Notes load since it responds more like an open back 2x12.
The Mesa is voiced to respond like their 4x12 cab and they did a really good job at it.

[Mike Oxhuge]

Sounds amazing! If you get a good Triple XXX, they are so much like a smokier slightly darker Mark Cameron sort of tone. Definitely hot rod Marshall with a little Recto sprinkled in. Still in my top 10 of amps I've had and Ive had in the low 100's of tube amps!