Seriously OP must be Canadian

[ibenhad]

This post just made go HUH? I don't think his guitar tones are what people are inspired by. Hell I only remember one guitar "riff" by him and it's pretty lame and the sound ain't all that. But hey whatever makes you wanna play guitar to each his own right?

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/bryan-adams-axefx-this-computerized-crap-aint-gettin-me-off.2472962/

[GuitarBilly]

yeah, I can't think of many iconic Bryan Adams tones either. The track he did with Tina had a solid guitar riff and tone, but that's pretty much it.

That said, I agree with the OP on his stance on modelers, but maybe Bryan Adams is not th e best example of that

[JiveTurkey]

Love modeling. Love amps. Agree with parts of this OP's idea of what he is presenting, certainly; after seeing a number of national bands perform with what I would call neutered tone. Mainly because they are cabless on stage versus using amp modeling.

As much as I disagree with luddite yelling at modeler clouds; I also disagree with anti-luddite yelling at real amps and people that use them. Both stances in each EXTREME direction are boring and irritate the fuck out of me. Just like Bryan Adams, generally speaking

[GuitarBilly]

I don't see it as much as being a luddite/anti-luddite thing. Most people I know that don't like modeling have tried many of them. I've owned a lot of them myself and even worked for Line 6. So it's not a luddite position.

It boils down to whether you can hear a difference or not. And people not accepting that other people can hear things that they can't. And by that I don't mean hear things "better", but just differently. Like a mechanic knowing what the issue with the car is just by hearing the engine, he doesn't have better hearing than you, his hearing is just tuned to identify certain things. Or the opposite, someone who lives by a railroad track and don't even notice the train anymore, because his hearing is tuned to ignore that noise.

Life is full of examples like that, it's just normal, but somehow when it comes to guitar tone, the ego kicks in and it's like if I can't hear it no one can" or "if you can't hear it on a blind test, you can't hear it anywhere". None of which is true. Not only people hear things differently from each other, they also hear things differently from themselves in different situations.

I don't know if the issue is having cabs or being cabless. Band like Alice In Chains, Maiden etc, mic their cabs offstage and still sound like normal amps. So I would tend to think the difference is analog vs digital source. Not reproduction. But again, I can't tell people to hear things they can't. I actually envy these people to some degree because my life would be a lot easier if I could be happy with just carrying the modeler to gigs. Which is why I bought several of them to try out - and will continue to do so as technology progresses. I am actually looking forward to the day I can ditch amps. But I don't think it's there yet.

[Dave]

That's a whole lot of text I have no interest in reading.

Modelers suck live, so I assume that's what this thread is about. I agree. Fuck them.

[duncan]

My favourite part was when he complained about digital amps rather than tube amps being blasted through the digital PA system.

[GuitarBilly]

My favourite part was when he complained about digital amps rather than tube amps being blasted through the digital PA system.

I think there's a huge difference digital source (modelers, edrums, digital pianos etc) and digital reproduction like PAs and digital audio players. But again I can't make people hear what they don't hear.

Aside from wanting to hear great tone from Bryan Adams and wording his complaints like an old man yelling at clouds, his observations about the weight of the guitars in the mix etc are similar to what I've experienced.

[NinjaRaf]

Bryan Adams…badass…what universe is this…

[Riffraff]

Bryan Adams…badass…what universe is this…

Right?

That discredits everything he said from that point forward.

[GuitarBilly]

Bryan Adams…badass…what universe is this…

[Beef]

Bryan Adams…badass…what universe is this…

I’m honestly still trying to wrap my head around this.

[screamingdaisy]

I think it's an age thing. We cover Summer of '69. Most of the band is a bit older than me and they're into this song. Me, I heard it on the radio growing up but I think it's one of the weaker songs that we play, but the crowd digs it, so whatever.

Still, I think that a guy who's idolizing pop rock is bitching about digital guitars says something.

I remember years back there was an interview with a soundman (I think he was working for Alice in Chains because he was talking about Palmers) that caused a bunch of the modelling crowd to get butt hurt. He basically said it was best when the band was all or nothing. If they were all modelling it was great, and if they were all analogue it was great, it was when you mixed the two that modelling became a problem because of how it performed in the mix.

[JiveTurkey]

I'd say tonewise I think of Adams' guitar sounds as sort of a B- tier to the 80s strat tones I hold up to elite A++ level (aka Robert Plant solo material strat tone hoooooly fuck).

There is always a lot of down in the weeds back and forth on this topic and both "sides" certainly have merit if you want it to. But I usually don't want it to

I don't see it as much as being a luddite/anti-luddite thing. Most people I know that don't like modeling have tried many of them. I've owned a lot of them myself and even worked for Line 6. So it's not a luddite position.

It boils down to whether you can hear a difference or not. And people not accepting that other people can hear things that they can't. And by that I don't mean hear things "better", but just differently. Like a mechanic knowing what the issue with the car is just by hearing the engine, he doesn't have better hearing than you, his hearing is just tuned to identify certain things. Or the opposite, someone who lives by a railroad track and don't even notice the train anymore, because his hearing is tuned to ignore that noise.

Life is full of examples like that, it's just normal, but somehow when it comes to guitar tone, the ego kicks in and it's like if I can't hear it no one can" or "if you can't hear it on a blind test, you can't hear it anywhere". None of which is true. Not only people hear things differently from each other, they also hear things differently from themselves in different situations.

I don't know if the issue is having cabs or being cabless. Band like Alice In Chains, Maiden etc, mic their cabs offstage and still sound like normal amps. So I would tend to think the difference is analog vs digital source. Not reproduction. But again, I can't tell people to hear things they can't. I actually envy these people to some degree because my life would be a lot easier if I could be happy with just carrying the modeler to gigs. Which is why I bought several of them to try out - and will continue to do so as technology progresses. I am actually looking forward to the day I can ditch amps. But I don't think it's there yet.

On the luddite/modelers are the future tip; you can see a couple of CLEAR AS DAY examples of both of these stances in that TGP thread. One guy telling us how you need 4 crakned plexis and a wall of cabs and then other end where some digital dumbfuck is telling us about his all in-ears band and silent stage blahblahblah. Both of these extremes (and the absolute of both people to the "opposing" viewpoints) are instantly to me

That's a whole lot of text I have no interest in reading.

Modelers suck live, so I assume that's what this thread is about. I agree. Fuck them.

That BOTR pedalboard entry is getting into the danger zone

[screamingdaisy]

Anyway, my theory is that the creme will rise to the top, and right now that seems to be tube amps, transistor dirt/filter/modulation, digital delay/reverb/modulation, analogue mics and digital cab IR.

I don't exactly see people lining up for digital distortion pedals.

[GuitarBilly]

I think it's an age thing. We cover Summer of '69. Most of the band is a bit older than me and they're into this song. Me, I heard it on the radio growing up but I think it's one of the weaker songs that we play, but the crowd digs it, so whatever.

Still, I think that a guy who's idolizing pop rock is bitching about digital guitars says something.

I remember years back there was an interview with a soundman (I think he was working for Alice in Chains because he was talking about Palmers) that caused a bunch of the modelling crowd to get butt hurt. He basically said it was best when the band was all or nothing. If they were all modelling it was great, and if they were all analogue it was great, it was when you mixed the two that modelling became a problem because of how it performed in the mix.

Yeah that's Tom Abrahams, sound guy for Alice in Chains, Metallica, Gun and Roses and many others. He's a big proponent of Palmer DIs.

I agree with what he said, once you level everything to digital, it can sound really good. But if you have analog instruments and especially acoustic drums, they will overpower the digital instruments in the mix.

So going all analog or all digital is a good idea.

[screamingdaisy]

IMO, if digital were objectively better we wouldn't still be having this conversation. We'd all be using digital because it would be objectively better. I'd jump ship in a moment. But, here we are, still having this conversation, with people who formerly used digital and aren't morally opposed to it but choose not to.

IMO, going digital for convenience is the equivalent of saying, "No one cares about your tone live, the crowd just wants to see a great performance."

[GuitarBilly]

IMO, if digital were objectively better we wouldn't still be having this conversation. We'd all be using digital because it would be objectively better. I'd jump ship in a moment. But, here we are, still having this conversation, with people who formerly used digital and aren't morally opposed to it but choose not to.

IMO, going digital for convenience is the equivalent of saying, "No one cares about your tone live, the crowd just wants to see a great performance."

That's exactly what I've been saying. I WANT to go digital. I've tried it many times. Spent a few grand on it.
The idea of going to gigs with my guitar and a pedalboard is extremely appealing to me. We recently moved my wife's bass rig to a SansAmp (analog) setup and we're very happy with it. I'm really looking forward to the day I'm able to do the same with my guitar rig. But I don't think it's there yet.

[Marc G]

Bryan Adams has some catchy songs..... wouldn't say his tones are God Tier though..... and while Keith Scott isn't a ground breaking guitarist, the dude has come up with some real tasty licks for Adam's songs, definitely stuff that's better than the average pop song...


my band has a couple Bryan Adams songs in our repertoire and you definitely don't need any kinda fancy gear to get the sound of those records

[GuitarBilly]

Yeah I like Bryan Adams. Great singer. I just found it weird that THAT was the show where he got mad about modeling

[screamingdaisy]

That's exactly what I've been saying. I WANT to go digital. I've tried it many times. Spent a few grand on it.
The idea of going to gigs with my guitar and a pedalboard is extremely appealing to me. We recently moved my wife's bass rig to a SansAmp (analog) setup and we're very happy with it. I'm really looking forward to the day I'm able to do the same with my guitar rig. But I don't think it's there yet.

I think the catch with bass is that DI is the recorded sound we all grew up with, so running a DI into a PA isn't a compromise, it's actually an improvement over mic'ing an actual bass amp. They struggled for decades trying to get a bassists stage tone to translate through the PA, and now PAs have improved to the point where they can actually do it better than a lot of bass amps. IMO, this is why a lot of bassists will happily DI and use IEM... for many (but not all) it's actually an improvement over a live amp.

[ke2]

That's exactly what I've been saying. I WANT to go digital. I've tried it many times. Spent a few grand on it.
The idea of going to gigs with my guitar and a pedalboard is extremely appealing to me. We recently moved my wife's bass rig to a SansAmp (analog) setup and we're very happy with it. I'm really looking forward to the day I'm able to do the same with my guitar rig. But I don't think it's there yet.

I think the catch with bass is that DI is the recorded sound we all grew up with, so running a DI into a PA isn't a compromise, it's actually an improvement over mic'ing an actual bass amp. They struggled for decades trying to get a bassists stage tone to translate through the PA, and now PAs have improved to the point where they can actually do it better than a lot of bass amps. IMO, this is why a lot of bassists will happily DI and use IEM... for many (but not all) it's actually an improvement over a live amp.

One of the best bass tones I've played along to, was in a Metallica tribute, where the bass player used my MTD Grendel into a DI, which was split, with one clean DI into the PA, and into a TS-9 going into an EBS stack that was miced. The FOH guy blended in the dirty amp with the clean DI, and that was massive.

(I used a Caliber .50+ and the other ("James") used an ENGL Savage. Both into 4x12s with V30s. That gig sounded great, and we got lots of praise for the sound.)

[Marc G]

That's exactly what I've been saying. I WANT to go digital. I've tried it many times. Spent a few grand on it.
The idea of going to gigs with my guitar and a pedalboard is extremely appealing to me. We recently moved my wife's bass rig to a SansAmp (analog) setup and we're very happy with it. I'm really looking forward to the day I'm able to do the same with my guitar rig. But I don't think it's there yet.

I think the catch with bass is that DI is the recorded sound we all grew up with, so running a DI into a PA isn't a compromise, it's actually an improvement over mic'ing an actual bass amp. They struggled for decades trying to get a bassists stage tone to translate through the PA, and now PAs have improved to the point where they can actually do it better than a lot of bass amps. IMO, this is why a lot of bassists will happily DI and use IEM... for many (but not all) it's actually an improvement over a live amp.

One of the best bass tones I've played along to, was in a Metallica tribute, where the bass player used my MTD Grendel into a DI, which was split, with one clean DI into the PA, and into a TS-9 going into an EBS stack that was miced. The FOH guy blended in the dirty amp with the clean DI, and that was massive.

(I used a Caliber .50+ and the other ("James") used an ENGL Savage. Both into 4x12s with V30s. That gig sounded great, and we got lots of praise for the sound.)

blending a clean bass signal with a well driven bass signal is key to getting a great bass tone for rock and metal IMO.. pretty much a standard thing I do when ever recording bass.... funny enough I just figured out how to do that in my Midas mixer but only using a single input from the bass player... worked great at the last show I did sound for

[GuitarBilly]

Yeah bass DI is pretty much figured out. You can definitely use them and sound no different than an amp and it's all analog technology, which is great.


I use Palmers for my live guitar sound sometimes but the only thing being replaced is the mic and speaker. Again, analog. I think that definitely works well especially when you don't know how good the soundguy is.

[ibenhad]

Yeah I like Bryan Adams. Great singer. I just found it weird that THAT guy was his inspiration to play guitar

FIXED

[screamingdaisy]

blending a clean bass signal with a well driven bass signal is key to getting a great bass tone for rock and metal IMO.. pretty much a standard thing I do when ever recording bass.... funny enough I just figured out how to do that in my Midas mixer but only using a single input from the bass player... worked great at the last show I did sound for

I usually run a Bass Driver DI in parallel with my amp (SVT). The BDDI sends a clean/dirty blend to FOH while my stage amp is mildly driven.

When I get a co-operative soundman I’ll also ask for an SM-57 on the cab to blend with the BDDI. It’s not for lows, just some additional midrange colour that the soundman can add/remove as needed.

In a nutshell, that triple blend is the AiC bass tone, which I’ve totally ripped off because it’s fucking awesome. If I add a distortion to the SVT IIf kicks me up into Rex Brown territory.