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I've come to the conclusion that group projects don't work in college.

Having worked in industry and done quite a few really successful projects there, as well as being part of a shit hot squad and later a team/squad leader, I've come to the conclusion that groups only work when you can either fire or beat the piss out of the non-hackers.

Yeah... I'm bitter.

Tell me about it. I had to get one last GenEd out of the way so I could focus on finishing my degree classes.

Fucking speech class. All "get to know each other" group projects basically. Fuck that shit just let me do my work and leave.

This is an upper div marketing class. 100pt project so it's equivalent to an exam. We divided up the research and whatnot and I agreed to do the Powerpoint for the actual presentation which is later today.

So two days ago I'm still getting sporadic communication from my group and the research and analysis they've provided is all fucked up.

One guy I haven't heard from in two days just got hold of me this morning telling me we need to change things.

I ended up doing the whole bloody thing myself... no shit you think we need to change things lol...

Group projects in college definitely blow. My favorite was the one whenever you have a final project due on Wednesday and you get a call at 10:00pm on Tuesday from a slacker who says they thought it was due next Wednesday, not this Wednesday. There were several times where I would tell a professor that a member didn't contribute. Fuck them, I had to work for my GPA and I didn't get any government assistance to go to school.

IME group projects work when there are precisely 3 members with definitive, non overlapping roles.

This is when you pull the cord, do your own project. Tell the group the night before that you haven't gotten any communication, or received any of the tasks that were previously agreed upon by any member.

Say you guys are on your own, and I am preparing my own project to present by myself- because if I have to do all the work then I should also get the grade. Cc the Professor.

I did this many times when I was in college because in a group of 4 there's the guy that doesn't even give a fuck. The person that wants to change shit over and over (even when everyone including them agreed on a layout), the visionary that doesn't ever really move forward in the project. He just keeps spinning his wheels with all kinds of random pointless shit that's not even remotely pertinent to the task or goal at hand, and then there's you, the guys that ends up doing the whole fucking thing.

This is the exact reason I don't do study groups. I'm a 4.0 student, and I'm always getting solicited from the kids that are struggling in the class.

It isn't my job to teach you dumbass, and it sure is hell isn't my fault that you are borderline failing the class.

Most of my group projects in college went well. A few of them were actually fun. The one for my management class where we had to talk about the key points was the most fun. All the other groups did the normal business style presentation with powerpoint. Our group had skits planned out. One of which was a fight scene.

The only time there was a slacker was during our senior project. We went to the prof asap. The kid went MIA during the 2nd half of the project. Problem solved.

Most of the group projects I've been in included peer evaluations that influenced our grades. With me being the blunt, stab you in the front, type most group members knew what I was going to say. I don't think that scared anyone. Everyone seemed to carry their own weight. It was weird. People were acting responsible.

Yeah...

I could bomb this and still do fairly well in the class because I've done A work on everything else including the highest grade in the class on the midterm.

I think my problem is the two people I got saddled with are both doing their upper div requirements for a Business minor. Neither seem to be real on the ball. I'm hardly type A or anything but I do know how to get shit done and I don't hand in substandard work.

*puts on hipster hat*

I hated group projects long before college.

*Takes off hipster hat*

For certain classes I get it...sort of. But yeah, if there's NO consequences for slackers in the group outside of others doing more work or group suffering, it just doesn't work.

madryan wrote:Yeah...

I could bomb this and still do fairly well in the class because I've done A work on everything else including the highest grade in the class on the midterm.

I think my problem is the two people I got saddled with are both doing their upper div requirements for a Business minor. Neither seem to be real on the ball. I'm hardly type A or anything but I do know how to get shit done and I don't hand in substandard work.

No offense to you if you are majoring in business, but I've found that in college, 95-99% of Business students are complete fucking idiots. In my econ class this morning, the professor didn't bring calculators for people to use on the exam and EVERYONE in the room started bitching.

Calm down people the math in that class is so easy that a 10 year old could do it in his sleep.

Steveijobzz wrote:

madryan wrote:Yeah...

I could bomb this and still do fairly well in the class because I've done A work on everything else including the highest grade in the class on the midterm.

I think my problem is the two people I got saddled with are both doing their upper div requirements for a Business minor. Neither seem to be real on the ball. I'm hardly type A or anything but I do know how to get shit done and I don't hand in substandard work.

No offense to you if you are majoring in business, but I've found that in college, 95-99% of Business students are complete fucking idiots. In my econ class this morning, the professor didn't bring calculators for people to use on the exam and EVERYONE in the room started bitching.

Calm down people the math in that class is so easy that a 10 year old could do it in his sleep.

Yeah, well what I did last time around (ME and Mathematics) isn't making me a living so Business it is.

Steveijobzz wrote:

madryan wrote:Yeah...

I could bomb this and still do fairly well in the class because I've done A work on everything else including the highest grade in the class on the midterm.

I think my problem is the two people I got saddled with are both doing their upper div requirements for a Business minor. Neither seem to be real on the ball. I'm hardly type A or anything but I do know how to get shit done and I don't hand in substandard work.

No offense to you if you are majoring in business, but I've found that in college, 95-99% of Business students are complete fucking idiots. In my econ class this morning, the professor didn't bring calculators for people to use on the exam and EVERYONE in the room started bitching.

Calm down people the math in that class is so easy that a 10 year old could do it in his sleep.

FWIW I'm an Accounting major, so I'm a step removed from the Business thing.

People who don't know what they want to do will often choose Business as a major because they believe that it will lead to a good job in the future. Their line of thinking goes something like this: "Hey man, I don't really know what I want to do, but the whole world revolves around business, right? Derp, I'll be a BusAd major DERP DERP DERP". It may work if they're good students, but most end up working retail, and not in a management position. lol

Which Econ are you taking? Depending on your teacher and how hard they want to make the exam, I could see a calculator being necessary for Microeconomics. My Economics teacher used to be a professor at Princeton, so of course he made his tests difficult. Didn't stop me from acing it though, like a baus.

I only assign group projects to torture my students.

There's always a weak link. You just work around him/her, do the work, and let the prof know who did the work.

TyroneBiggums wrote:

Steveijobzz wrote:

madryan wrote:Yeah...

I could bomb this and still do fairly well in the class because I've done A work on everything else including the highest grade in the class on the midterm.

I think my problem is the two people I got saddled with are both doing their upper div requirements for a Business minor. Neither seem to be real on the ball. I'm hardly type A or anything but I do know how to get shit done and I don't hand in substandard work.

No offense to you if you are majoring in business, but I've found that in college, 95-99% of Business students are complete fucking idiots. In my econ class this morning, the professor didn't bring calculators for people to use on the exam and EVERYONE in the room started bitching.

Calm down people the math in that class is so easy that a 10 year old could do it in his sleep.

FWIW I'm an Accounting major, so I'm a step removed from the Business thing.

People who don't know what they want to do will often choose Business as a major because they believe that it will lead to a good job in the future. Their line of thinking goes something like this: "Hey man, I don't really know what I want to do, but the whole world revolves around business, right? Derp, I'll be a BusAd major DERP DERP DERP". It may work if they're good students, but most end up working retail, and not in a management position. lol

Which Econ are you taking? Depending on your teacher and how hard they want to make the exam, I could see a calculator being necessary for Microeconomics. My Economics teacher used to be a professor at Princeton, so of course he made his tests difficult. Didn't stop me from acing it though, like a baus.

I'm in microecon. FWIW I'm a physics major/math minor and the only reason I'm taking it is because I needed one more class to satisfy some scheduling issues this semester. But when I'm doing integrals every day and my peers are whining about basic addition and subtraction (or god forbid, FRACTIONS) it gets pretty hilarious.

Steveijobzz wrote:

TyroneBiggums wrote:

Steveijobzz wrote:

madryan wrote:Yeah...

I could bomb this and still do fairly well in the class because I've done A work on everything else including the highest grade in the class on the midterm.

I think my problem is the two people I got saddled with are both doing their upper div requirements for a Business minor. Neither seem to be real on the ball. I'm hardly type A or anything but I do know how to get shit done and I don't hand in substandard work.

No offense to you if you are majoring in business, but I've found that in college, 95-99% of Business students are complete fucking idiots. In my econ class this morning, the professor didn't bring calculators for people to use on the exam and EVERYONE in the room started bitching.

Calm down people the math in that class is so easy that a 10 year old could do it in his sleep.

FWIW I'm an Accounting major, so I'm a step removed from the Business thing.

People who don't know what they want to do will often choose Business as a major because they believe that it will lead to a good job in the future. Their line of thinking goes something like this: "Hey man, I don't really know what I want to do, but the whole world revolves around business, right? Derp, I'll be a BusAd major DERP DERP DERP". It may work if they're good students, but most end up working retail, and not in a management position. lol

Which Econ are you taking? Depending on your teacher and how hard they want to make the exam, I could see a calculator being necessary for Microeconomics. My Economics teacher used to be a professor at Princeton, so of course he made his tests difficult. Didn't stop me from acing it though, like a baus.

I'm in microecon. FWIW I'm a physics major/math minor and the only reason I'm taking it is because I needed one more class to satisfy some scheduling issues this semester. But when I'm doing integrals every day and my peers are whining about basic addition and subtraction (or god forbid, FRACTIONS) it gets pretty hilarious.

When you get into real econ you'll need a calculator that can do symbolic manipulation.

It's all partial derivatives and systems of equations. You can brute force it with a calculator faster than by hand.

(has taken tons of econ )

madryan wrote:When you get into real econ you'll need a calculator that can do symbolic manipulation.

It's all partial derivatives and systems of equations. You can brute force it with a calculator faster than by hand.

(has taken tons of econ )

Which is exactly why I'm an Accounting major

I've been told that Accounting majors are just Econ majors without the right personality for Economics. That describes me perfectly.

TyroneBiggums wrote:

madryan wrote:When you get into real econ you'll need a calculator that can do symbolic manipulation.

It's all partial derivatives and systems of equations. You can brute force it with a calculator faster than by hand.

(has taken tons of econ )

Which is exactly why I'm an Accounting major

I've been told that Accounting majors are just Econ majors without the right personality for Economics. That describes me perfectly.

As an econ graduate some 30 years ago, yeah, you do a bunch of partial diffy-q's, but the hard part is in formulating your proofs in the first place. If your assumptions and formulations suck, it won't matter how much brute force a calculator can bring to the table.

While I'm tempted to crack that accounting majors are econ majors with no personality, that's not really true. I hated accounting almost as much as statistics; the minutia of remembering how to handle which situation in accounting drove me crazy, while I could figure out most of the stuff in econ through logic. The thing that's similar in each is that you can't be afraid of working with numbers; the difference is that accounting and econ people's brains work a little differently.

Finally, to the OP, yeah, group projects blow, especially in school, but that tends to be true in the business world as well unless roles are really well defined and it is easy for management to figure out who came up short. If you're the one putting together the presentation, it should be pretty easy for you to attribute each piece to the person who did or did not come through, thereby CYA.

PurpleTrails wrote:

TyroneBiggums wrote:

madryan wrote:When you get into real econ you'll need a calculator that can do symbolic manipulation.

It's all partial derivatives and systems of equations. You can brute force it with a calculator faster than by hand.

(has taken tons of econ )

Which is exactly why I'm an Accounting major

I've been told that Accounting majors are just Econ majors without the right personality for Economics. That describes me perfectly.

As an econ graduate some 30 years ago, yeah, you do a bunch of partial diffy-q's, but the hard part is in formulating your proofs in the first place. If your assumptions and formulations suck, it won't matter how much brute force a calculator can bring to the table.

While I'm tempted to crack that accounting majors are econ majors with no personality, that's not really true. I hated accounting almost as much as statistics; the minutia of remembering how to handle which situation in accounting drove me crazy, while I could figure out most of the stuff in econ through logic. The thing that's similar in each is that you can't be afraid of working with numbers; the difference is that accounting and econ people's brains work a little differently.

Finally, to the OP, yeah, group projects blow, especially in school, but that tends to be true in the business world as well unless roles are really well defined and it is easy for management to figure out who came up short. If you're the one putting together the presentation, it should be pretty easy for you to attribute each piece to the person who did or did not come through, thereby CYA.

Last company I worked for everything was groups. Everyone had specialties and they'd build teams for every project based on people's talents and what they did. It actually really worked well because as you pointed out, everyone's role was clearly defined and if you didn't do your part right, when you handed it off to the next guy in the group it was painfully obvious.

FWIW, I hate accounting. Hate it with a passion, but it could be that my prof in school didn't really do a great job of teaching it. I've learned quite a bit since taking the basic accounting classes and I've got a much better grasp on it now but I could never be an accountant. I dig econ but not enough to do it for a living.

I'm doing the management track, probably going to get dual certificates (minors) in MIS and HR which will be useful anywhere. I can already build databases but I need to be better at it and learning SQL would be the right way to go because I've always used VB.

being the science geek/nerd that i am, i was always the fooking bauce in labs. after having a string of noob/idiot lab "partners" i started just doing all of my labs solo because i was doing all of the work myself anyway.

the catalyst for this was a freshman chemistry lab that i was a little late to. my lab "partners" started without me. the goal was to make aspirin (acetyl salicylic acid). when we didn't have any precipitate at the end of the reaction, the professor went over each step. when he got to the step where you add the salicylic acid, the two noobs said "the what?".

that was the end of me having lab partners. they always benefited from me, and i never benefited from them.

zach wrote:being the science geek/nerd that i am, i was always the fooking bauce in labs. after having a string of noob/idiot lab "partners" i started just doing all of my labs solo because i was doing all of the work myself anyway.

the catalyst for this was a freshman chemistry lab that i was a little late to. my lab "partners" started without me. the goal was to make aspirin (acetyl salicylic acid). when we didn't have any precipitate at the end of the reaction, the professor went over each step. when he got to the step where you add the salicylic acid, the two noobs said "the what?".

that was the end of me having lab partners. they always benefited from me, and i never benefited from them.

Don't even get me started on physics lab groups.

Last week we were measuring current in various circuits and it took 5 minutes for my group to figure out how to turn the power supply on to provide the power. (It's a multi function power supply/wave generator/voltmeter so it's got a decent amount of knobs but its not THAT bad)

I didn't even bother pointing out how to do it because its pretty hard for me to say something at this point without coming off like a huge condescending douche.