Guitar Gear Forum

Alright guys, so you may have recently seen my other thread about spending $2000 on a P.A. System: http://www.guitarampboard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29951

Aside from that P.A, I'm looking to make a recording studio to record songs and albums.

I've put a lot of thinking into this and could really use all the help in teh world.

Table of contents:

- Summary
- Gameplan
- Stuff I think I need
- Sound Wants

Ill give a brief summary

ME


- 21 year old clueless amateur musician that wants to record some Stoner Rock/Hard Rock inspired songs/albums (think Nirvana, Wolfmother, Queens of the Stone Age, Led Zeppelin) with a "raw oldschool" feel

- Recently won $7000 that has to be spent on music gear in part to the fellas on this board (gift certificate kind of deal) hence my budget

- Minimally experienced with recording. I used a $99 Steinberg CI1 USB interface into Sequel LE2 to record multiple songs, 1 instrument at a time, with a single Shure SM57. Still pretty poor so this prize was a game-changer for me.

You can hear the tracks I made with my band here: http://www.soundcloud.com/SensoryOL . They actually turned out alright but it was a huge struggle- limited crappy software, single microphone, low quality, tempo issues, awful mixing, .etc

- Already have the guitars, effects pedals, amps, drum kit, .etc .etc
- Windows Laptop

GAMEPLAN

So I figure I can set aside $2000 - $3000 for my own little recording studio in my bedroom. Nothing fancy as it will just be recording myself plus the singer and drummer.

However, I want the songs to be top shelf quality (but probably sending them to a studio to be mastered). Someday when I have a bigger space I can make a better room with fancy soundproof, desks and stuff, but for now I'll just deal with cramming up the entire room.

Here's the list of things I would like to accomplish- so I come to the experts seeking the advice.

EDIT: To clarify- we wont be recording live, but the traditional "one instrument at a time" kinda thing

STUFF I THINK I NEED

Did some research and made a rough list:

IMPORTANT:

- A high quality, yet simple (not 50 million knobs) recording Interface with 8-10 microphone lines (Cant picture myself using them all but apparently the more mic lines, the better the board)

- A good "rock" Software/DAW program for recording into. I love the look of stuff like Garage Band as it seems very easy to navigate around, and I don't plan on doing any complex stuff so midi kits, effects, .etc don't really matter- quality is key.

GENERAL:

- High-quality Headset with a long ass cable

- "Studio monitors" however if I get a P.A. I assume I can use those Powered speakers at a lower volume. If not, I see those little yellow ones everywhere
- A good computer. My laptops nothing fancy, just a 2013 Asus. Apparently macs are very popular but that would be a very expensive addition.

- Microphones.

I currently have one SM57, but am thinking about a second guitar/bass mic as I hear that lots of the guitarists I like use atleast 2-3 mics on their amps or to pick up room sound.

For vocals, I've been told the Shure SM58 is the standard.

Don't even know where to begin on the drum kit- I assume I can use my SM57 / SM58 somewhere but will still need atleast 5 mics.


SOUND WANTS

Here is what I hope to accomplish, or the sound I'm going for

1) Classic Rock feel- I'll elaborate

- I'm aware all of the bands I listed above used tape and non-digital recording methods, but this just seems impractical for me. I'm not talented enough to nail stuff in one take or get into complex methods, so my plan is to simply hook microphones up to an interface and record into them, into a program.

I know its hard to tell apart Analog and Digital these days, but I still notice lots of new songs sound kind of "plastic" or "overproduced" to my novice ears, so I want to find somewhat of a mix between oldschool and digital.

- layering (aka recording each instrument 1 at a time after a scratch track with a tempo)

- recording loud bass/guitar amps with 1-2 mics
- recording vocals with 1-2 mics
- recording drums with... 4-6 mics? (this is the part im most unfamiliar with)

I know I know, nothing groundbreaking here. Ideally I just want to be able to find some simple, beginner friendly, yet awesome quality gear that will allow me to make some kickin rock tunes.

I know that great gear doesn't equal great music- but to be honest, I'd rather spend the money to have my own high-quality gear so that I don't necessarily need to go to a studio, where money goes really fast. This way I can learn as I go and still make tracks at a professional level- and not worry about dropping a few grand to record an album once-off.

TLDR: I wanna make a Nirvana album in my room, got like $3000.

Any information, recommendations or advice is appreciated guys.

With this budget, you need to prioritize. A good interface and monitors are a must - and that could already eat up 1/2 of your budget.

For guitar, I'd look into a good reactive load like the Suhr and use IRs.
For bass, I'd get a Sansamp Bass Driver DI. It's an industry standard used on many pro records.
For drums, I'd get an e-kit with MIDI out and trigger Slate/Toontrack drum sounds with it
For vocals, get a good condenser mic for the singer's voice (take him to a store and have him try different mics). Then get a solid plug in suite like Izotope Nectar
Also, get a solid mastering software like Ozone and a good plug in suite like a Waves bundle.

That should take care of everything you will need to potentially come up with a killer record. I say potentially because the ears and talent for recording (which is different them playing/writing talent) will play the bigest part in it.


But yeah, that's the route I'd go with your budget. If you want to try to mic amps, drums etc... it takes a fortune in good mics/pres to get it to pro level and you need a good sounding, tuned room too, which is easy if you're lucky that your room is naturally good for it or extremely expensive if it isn't.

Go direct, go digital and get the best interface and monitors you can.

I had less than that invested in my studio rig when I recorded this:

https://awakingmercury.bandcamp.com/track/ghost

So I'm basically gonna recommend my rig

DAW: Reaper. It's cheap, has an excellent interface, comes with some solid workhorse plugins, and its CHEAP. Like 50 bucks for an unrestricted license.

Interface: I used a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 with an Octopre hooked up via ADAT for 8 additional channel. Really nice setup, I still use it today. You'll definitely want at least 10 inputs for drums. Another cool option is the Antelope Zen Studio, it gets great reviews and has 12 inputs. I haven't used it personally but I kind of want one

Monitors: You're going to need actual studio monitors to get a great mix IMO. I'd recommend the Yamaha HS8s. They're relatively cheap and are an industry standard. They sound great.

Thats a solid setup and leaves you around $1300 for mics. Get a nice pair of pencil condensors (RODE NT-5 is a solid set), a nice large diaphragm condenser (ROTE NT-2 is solid). There are a good amount of offerings in that price range. Do some research and pick what you like best.

Audix makes killer drum mics. The D6 is amazing and perfect on a kick drum, I really like the D4s on toms, and the i5 is great on the snare. They're all relatively cheap. You definitely want 2 mics for your snare (57s are great), a dynamic mic for each tom and kick, a pair of overheads and a room mic.

If you have a 57 and decent amps you're set on guitar. Grab a sansamp DI for the bass and go direct with that.

Drop me a line if you want the details on how I did that single. I also have some other examples of my recordings I could share.

Sounds like a fun project, SO - and congrats on the win!

Alright guys, thanks for all the information. I've figured out all my mics, cables .etc as well as completely re-built my room and cleared out my closet for extra room haha.

I've decided to buy one of several refurbished macs here in Canada: http://www.apple.com/ca_consumer_340760 ... ac/imac/21

My last decision has come down to Interfaces. I've narrowed it down to these 2- both 8 mic preamps and extremely high quality for the price as well as general ease of use. Both cost approximately $1300 to $1500. Any thoughts on which of the 2 I should choose? They are both quite similar. I like the Studio One software that comes along with the PreSonus but am also leaning towards the "air" feature and thunderbolt latency of the 8Pre... very tough

PreSonus 192
https://www.presonus.com/products/Studio-192

Focusrite Clarett 8Pre
https://us.focusrite.com/thunderbolt-au ... arett-8pre

I'd snag the Focusrite. I've used a lot of their interfaces and never had an issue

_ej_ wrote:I'd snag the Focusrite. I've used a lot of their interfaces and never had an issue

Thanks for the breakdown above man, makes me think twice about either of these. But to give further detail, I'll explain exactly how I intend to use said interface:

1) Hook up Shure SM57s, Sennheiser and other microphones to 1-8 pre-amp lines (so 1-2 unless im doing drums) to record Bass, Guitar and Vocals one instrument at a time. I am still primitively deciding whether or not I should outsource my drum recording or buy a mic kit for it- either way, 8 mic pre amps is plenty for drums.

But for now, my main concern is guitar, bass, vocals, .etc.

I am most hung up on software- the PreSonus comes with Studio One 3, which seems to be a top notch program and very beginner friendly. I could also run it on my 2013 windows Laptop so I could only be spending $1400 all in.

On the flip side, I could get the Focusrite 8pre for around $1400- but would have to then drop around $1300 on a Mac as well as $150 to $300 on some DAW like Logic Pro (or studio one on mac).

The demos on the Focusrite website sounded awesome and really sold me on the unit- plus the sound control programs it come with seem very simple and user friendly. However, I'd probably end up running this into Garageband initially, and I'm un sure how Garageband holds up on a professional scale quality wise. I don't plan on doing any fancy effects though, so basically some garage rock raw sound.

PreSonus $1400
Studio One FREE
No Mac required

Clarett 8pre $1400
DAW - $300?
Mac - $1300

Fortunately I have the money to spend, recently won a giftcard to a music store in a contest so it's a strange position to be in- I have 30 days to spend the money and have to kinda buy something I'll be able to use as I learn, so preparing ahead of time.

Anyways, after hearing this, any further insight to what would suit me better?

I'd get Reaper. It's like $60 and is professional software. You can try the fully functioning free version for as long you want. Spend the money you save on plugins, monitors etc.

Also, I still think you should go with the XR18 as both a mixer and 18 channel audio interface. Again, a very good value. At least look into it.

I am leaning towards this Clarett but I think you have some solid stuff picked out.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Clarett8PreX

I'd personally go with Logic Pro X if you are on a Mac. Yes, it is $199 but it is awesome and really easy to get into. I tried Reaper but was not as comfortable with it. I know lots of guys here us it with great success though. The transition from GarageBand to Logic was simple.

How about a Focusrite Liquid 56 and use reaper?

Thurston wrote:I'd get Reaper. It's like $60 and is professional software. You can try the fully functioning free version for as long you want. Spend the money you save on plugins, monitors etc.

Also, I still think you should go with the XR18 as both a mixer and 18 channel audio interface. Again, a very good value. At least look into it.

I really like this advice - especially combining the PA & recording setup to stretch the budget

Leaning towards the Focusrite despite it being much more expensive- here's the refurbished iMac ($1332 CAD tax included) I'm looking at: http://www.apple.com/ca_consumer_340760 ... el-core-i5

However, if I decide to go the PreSonus 192 route, would my current PC hold up to par?
Here's my current laptop specs- its a 2013 Asus R505C, supposively "SonicMaster" edition.
. It comes with Studio One artist- costs $200 to upgrade to 3.2 "pro" but still if I got the focusrite I'd likely be starting out with Garageband before moving to Logic anyways haha.

Check out this thread I started for free plugs:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/733514-post-5-your-most-used-free-plugins.html

Watch these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Enhcve9Lblc&list=PL0A5D662058525F1C
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBR4kLVPUfI&list=PL5213676B474E81FD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_b3oj7m-c8&list=PLVwn0Z_ucW6GFoLnKY8Y_BWweJVvX4otn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sRs3WIUr7A&list=PLFC57D274A1E94943

SensoryOverload wrote:Leaning towards the Focusrite despite it being much more expensive- here's the refurbished iMac ($1332 CAD tax included) I'm looking at: http://www.apple.com/ca_consumer_340760 ... el-core-i5

However, if I decide to go the PreSonus 192 route, would my current PC hold up to par?
Here's my current laptop specs- its a 2013 Asus R505C, supposively "SonicMaster" edition.
. It comes with Studio One artist- costs $200 to upgrade to 3.2 "pro" but still if I got the focusrite I'd likely be starting out with Garageband before moving to Logic anyways haha.

The processor speed and amount of RAM are both on the low side (especially the processor).

I read both your threads, congrats on the $7k shopping spree.

Listen to the advice on getting the Behringer XR18 and a pair of powered speakers plus a powered monitor for your live rig.

Skip the Presonus and Focusrite interfaces and use the XR18 as a USB interface as suggested. Do not use the powered speakers for mixing through, they are built to get loud not listen to conservatively for hours on end.

Spend the rest of your budget on mics and monitors because they are roughly 1000x more important than the difference between a Behringer and a Focusrite or a Mac with Logic and a PC with Reaper. Lucky for you, most industry standard live sound mics are also industry standard studio mics. In 20 years, whatever mixer, interface, or computer you buy with this $7k will be in a land fill somewhere, but the mics will be as useful as the day you bought them.

Mic models in my grab and go bag:
Shure SM58, SM57, SM81, Beta 52A
AKG C414B/ULS
Sennheiser MD421
Cascade Fathead
DIs: Countryman Type 85

I may be doing a recording session, mixing a band, or mixing a pit orchestra and these standards work as well today as they did 20 years ago.

trimix wrote:Do not use the powered speakers for mixing

I think you meant to write PA speakers? Agreed on the rest.

nakedzen wrote:

trimix wrote:Do not use the powered speakers for mixing

I think you meant to write PA speakers? Agreed on the rest.

Yes, "the powered speakers" meaning the ones you bought for PA. Get a pair of reference monitors to mix on, but don't stop using what you've been mixing on altogether as it's probably what you're used to hearing your favorite records through. Good monitors will reveal details you're missing but familiarity comes with time and is just as important as accuracy.