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i normally hate the general institution of religion. however, they are science and spiritual based. The inspirational quote was from Francois Jacob, a French biologist. A really awesome group of free-thinkers and open-mindedness at their service. What a relief to finally go to a spiritual function with these kinds of people. The message of the service was 'The Birth Of Hypocrisy' which was more of a psychological scientific lecture more than a spiritual lecture.

i can get on board with something like this

well, all righty then.

Wtf????

Yeah, I sometimes give my UU friends a hard time for being a group who feels like they ought to go to church, but just can't commit (lol)... BUT on a serious note, it's a great organization. Lots of good folks, from my experience, at least, and definitely not a "you have to check your mind at the door to be spiritual" kind of place.

Hm. As a scientifically adept and fairly heretical Protestant, they may be a sect I can (finally) get along with.

Generally I've found many Lutherans to be pretty mellow. The extreme Lutherans have bake sales *twice* a month. But even so, there are a lot of busybodies, and a few dogmatists.

I went to a couple of lectures by an expert in the various languages Biblical texts were translated through. It was fascinating, with detailed breakdowns of various chapters and how precisely the translation bounced through three or four languages. First, I was impressed that the translations were quite good. I guess that was sincerity of effort. Secondly and most profoundly, I was amazed that two or three extra layers of meanings (think double-entendre) had been lost in translation. This cautious and (IMO) unbiased lecture made me very wary of literalism.

But like I said I'm a heretic, and my religious views are pretty tame Protestantism, and almost guaranteed to irritate everyone, due to my acceptance and deconfliction of science and religion.

I may check out some Universal Unitarians, thanks for the tip.

Reverse Entropy wrote:Hm. As a scientifically adept and fairly heretical Protestant, they may be a sect I can (finally) get along with.

Generally I've found many Lutherans to be pretty mellow. The extreme Lutherans have bake sales *twice* a month. But even so, there are a lot of busybodies, and a few dogmatists.

I went to a couple of lectures by an expert in the various languages Biblical texts were translated through. It was fascinating, with detailed breakdowns of various chapters and how precisely the translation bounced through three or four languages. First, I was impressed that the translations were quite good. I guess that was sincerity of effort. Secondly and most profoundly, I was amazed that two or three extra layers of meanings (think double-entendre) had been lost in translation. This cautious and (IMO) unbiased lecture made me very wary of literalism.

But like I said I'm a heretic, and my religious views are pretty tame Protestantism, and almost guaranteed to irritate everyone, due to my acceptance and deconfliction of science and religion.

I may check out some Universal Unitarians, thanks for the tip.

One thing I always had a hard time with about typical churches is the interaction with other believers. They have a propensity to get all up in your business but my solution was to always "play my own game." And it has worked. Basically, don't get caught up in the personal crap, go there and get fed the Word of God, stew on it, make a couple friends, wash, rinse, repeat.

If, as a protestant, you believe that you can have a personal relationship with God without going through a priest, then that means that you are empowered to grow that faith and relationship regardless of the circumstances you find yourself in. This applies to anything in life, but for going to busy body churches or churches where you don't 100% agree with every nuance of their espousal, you can still get fed.

But you won't find it at a Universal Unitarian church because they don't accept the whole Trinity thing in the first place. It is a house of "god" not "God." If that's your bag, then fine.

PS. I would be interested to hear more of your acceptance and deconfliction of science and religion. Do you mean to say that you don't feel they are mutually exclusive and never ending warriors on opposing sides of the battle field? If so, then I agree with you. I would think that they go hand in hand so long as science is careful to not play God with genetic programming and eugenics. One would presume that the complexity of science and the relentless pursuit of "why" would naturally conclude in no explanation other than a metaphysical one. After all, they can explain how, but have a hard time with "why." Mainly because "why" isn't a true goal of science. I rant.

Back in about 2006, I was posting to another message board I belong to, about having recently left the religion in which I was raised. A bunch of people were sharing their own stories about how, when and why they fell away from the religion of their upbringing. I posted my own story, and I added something along the lines that it’s too bad there’s no church for people who don’t believe in God, because a lot of the rest of it (support structure, educational opportunity, pool of like-minded people, etc.) is appealing to me. Someone replied to my post saying that if I felt that way, I might want to try the Unitarian Universalists.

I knew next to nothing about Unitarianism; from the little I had heard and from the physical appearance of their churches, I had always assumed they were another Protestant sect, maybe a little more oddball than the Methodists or Presbyterians, but generally cut from the same cloth. After reading about them on their website, I realized that I could not be more wrong. I won’t bother regurgitating all of their beliefs here; anyone interested can follow the link and look on their own. But at the core, they’re a religious organization without any creed. Basically, you don’t have to believe any specific thing – or anything at all, if you don’t want to – to belong. They’re all about providing a supportive environment where people who share the same desire to find meaning in life can pursue it, without dictating what they must find. People of all religious backgrounds are welcome. Buddhists are welcome. Wiccans are welcome. Atheists are welcome. People who worship wooden statues, ears of corn, unicorns or waterfalls are welcome. Gays and lesbians are welcome. They provide theological instruction that covers every conceivable human belief system, presented without prejudice.

My curiosity piqued, I went to one of the eight or nine Unitarian churches in Houston one Sunday in early April 2006. My first impression was that it was disappointingly similar to a Christian church. The stained glass, the pipe organ, the robed choir: all were more or less reminiscent of a Methodist or Presbyterian church. Once things got under way, however, the differences became obvious. It was my good fortune to attend on a once-a-year occasion the Unitarians call “Coming of Age.” Unitarian adolescents spend their seventh grade year in study, meditation, soul searching and (if they are they praying kind) prayer. During this year, each young man or woman is mentored by an adult from the congregation. The object of this is to come up with a life philosophy and worldview that is uniquely theirs. During the Coming of Age ceremony at the end of this year, each of the participants presents and explains his or her conclusions to the congregation. On the Sunday I attended, four boys and three girls spoke. Of the seven, two proclaimed themselves atheist, two had a more or less Judeo-Christian belief system based around an anthropomorphic deity, two had a more or less Buddhist-Hindu approach including karma and reincarnation, and one girl had a vaguely pagan approach where she felt there was divinity in all nature. The wonderful thing, to me at least, was not the wide variety of conclusions these kids had arrived at, but the fact that the congregation cheered loudly for each of them. Several of the boys and girls noted that their beliefs differed from those of their parents, yet the parents stood and applauded for them. It was at this point that I realized I was somewhere very different from the religion in which I was raised.

Random cool things about the Unitarians:

- Quote from one of the ministers (they’re a husband and wife team): “Trust those to say they seek the truth. Doubt those who claim to find it.” How many ministers of other religions would say something like that?
- Church is full casual dress. Jeans and t-shirts. Even the old people dress casual.
- Everyone goes out for lunch and margaritas after church.
- You get to hear Emerson and Thoreau quoted like scripture.

There are several groups like this. So many in the threads here are so extremely jaded and anti-religious that they're ignorant to TONS, literally TONS of great religious philosophical practical paradigms. I used to do it myself. I let evangelical fundamentalist Christians shape my entire view on religion and spirituality. It's an unnecessary conflict to put yourself into. I put anti-religious atheists and extremist religious types in the exact same category. Both sides are tragically ignorant.

Reverse Entropy wrote:Hm. As a scientifically adept and fairly heretical Protestant, they may be a sect I can (finally) get along with.

Generally I've found many Lutherans to be pretty mellow. The extreme Lutherans have bake sales *twice* a month. But even so, there are a lot of busybodies, and a few dogmatists.

I went to a couple of lectures by an expert in the various languages Biblical texts were translated through. It was fascinating, with detailed breakdowns of various chapters and how precisely the translation bounced through three or four languages. First, I was impressed that the translations were quite good. I guess that was sincerity of effort. Secondly and most profoundly, I was amazed that two or three extra layers of meanings (think double-entendre) had been lost in translation. This cautious and (IMO) unbiased lecture made me very wary of literalism.

But like I said I'm a heretic, and my religious views are pretty tame Protestantism, and almost guaranteed to irritate everyone, due to my acceptance and deconfliction of science and religion.

I may check out some Universal Unitarians, thanks for the tip.

I've tried to explain that to people over and over... You get to a point where you realize that the person you're debating with barely has a 6th grade command of the English language, let alone any concept of how other languages can treat various forms of meaning.

That's when you just walk away.

Mike LX-R wrote:There are several groups like this. So many in the threads here are so extremely jaded and anti-religious that they're ignorant to TONS, literally TONS of great religious philosophical practical paradigms. I used to do it myself. I let evangelical fundamentalist Christians shape my entire view on religion and spirituality. It's an unnecessary conflict to put yourself into. I put anti-religious atheists and extremist religious types in the exact same category. Both sides are tragically ignorant.

This is a good point.

I would say that my position is that I don't believe in the supernatural dogma part of religion, but I'm happy to take the good parts from any religion and borrow them for my own world view.

I violently object to religious dogma being forced upon me or my child in the form of laws, teachings in school, etc. Believe what you want, just respect my freedom to believe that you're nuts.

I am a UU member. It's church for anybody. The music is kinda lame, but I've played there twice in the last year, which was ok. You meet some cool and interesting people.