Guitar Gear Forum

oh man... don't TOUCH my amp.

having been a sound guy and a person working with soundpeople... i know both sides of the story... but my worst story is playing in new york and having a soundman come over and scream YOURE TOO LOUD! then turn my input volume down during sound check. I kept playing, knowing that i'd just turn it back up... but he turned it so low I couldn't hear it. like AT ALL. then he started messing with eq. at this point I had enough, so I stopped playing, and physically removed him from my amp. naturally he glared at me and started yelling that he couldn't do anything with blah blah blah.. so i said, then just run the vocals and kick through the PA and leave it. he left the stage, and i readjusted.

later we took the stage. he dimed the reverb on the vocals, and left the building. sigh for mr janet jackson tour shirt, fanny pack, crunchboots and perm.

now... later in life, running sound, a band showed up to a gig with a sunn model t. i ran a sound check... but the PA was in NO way able to keep up with that thing. i told the guitarist, i love it, but.... this space and this pa can't keep stride with that monster... can you turn down? he wouldn't. nobody for two blocks heard anything BUT that amp. drummer, bassist, vocalist.... nope. nothin but model t.

but i didn't touch his amp.

Yeah some amps like plexis, model T etc are crazy for most venues these days because their tone is directly related to their volume. An attenuator is a must with these amps. But if I go see a rock band and all I can hear is a loud plexi overwhelming the mix, hey that's fine it doesn't have to be perfect every time


I think its different when you are in cover bands providing background/dance music to a bar etc

But with original rock bands, the people who come to this type of event are there specifically to hear the music so there has to be more leeway.

IMHO turning down a rock band to the point it sounds weak for the sake of a "clear mix" is a bit like slowing down a roller-coaster so people can enjoy the view. Yeah that's nice but that's not why people are there.

I've seen so many shows that were loud, sweaty and not at all clear sounding but the energy coming from the stage was awesome and that's the shows I usually remember.

I can't help but notice that the more these so-called rock venues get strict about volume, the emptier they get. Meanwhile, go to an EDM or rap club on a Saturday night and see how loud they crank their shit, with subs big enough to disembowel you. And oddly enough, that's where most younger crowds are these days. Hmm...

Not everything has to be comfortable and clear sounding. Certainly not rock or metal.

If I go to a "rock" venue to check out a new band and I get there and I can't barely hear the guitars or feel the music, that's a venue I won't go back to anymore. If you want to have a rock club, let it rock FFS

My opinion is that modern PAs are what's largely killed local rock music. You could see the descent throughout the 90s and into the modern era.

Crushing an entire band through a mono FOH mix makes everyone sound like a recording, which makes a DJ both more logical and cheaper.

The best shows I've been to have generally been in small/mid sized with appropriately loud stages and relatively light sound reinforcement.

I think there's some compromises that need to be made as you go up in scale, but you don't need to use stadium level logic in a bar twice the size of my livingrooom.

its a toss up... I agree modern PAs to an extent killed it because they have gotten so good at handling multiple sources and amps have WAY more headroom and power so why not put the entire band through it right? get the best mix possible..... only.. that's great for massive venues, not 100 head bars with a 20x10 stage.... and I get the engineers desire to be able to control everything to make it work.... some times that means working with the band in sound check to dial in their amps to the room, at least that what I do with the bands I run sound for in my Friend's bar.... its one of those things where as a guitarist you have to trust the engineer when he tells you make some adjustments to your amp.... one of the best engineers I work with from time to time take the time to EQ the system to match my amp from the stage and just uses it for sound reenforcement.... and if I'm stage left he might just pan me over to stage right to help balance things out a bit in the room.... it's not rocket science, it just take an engineer that gives a fuck

screamingdaisy wrote:My opinion is that modern PAs are what's largely killed local rock music. You could see the descent throughout the 90s and into the modern era.

Crushing an entire band through a mono FOH mix makes everyone sound like a recording, which makes a DJ both more logical and cheaper.

The best shows I've been to have generally been in small/mid sized with appropriately loud stages and relatively light sound reinforcement.

I think there's some compromises that need to be made as you go up in scale, but you don't need to use stadium level logic in a bar twice the size of my livingrooom.

yeah I agree, although it's not so much modern P.A.s but the people behind them. You can absolutely have a crushing sound with a modern PA. Just let the band dial in their sound and them use the P.A. to reinforce anything that's missing. Because the purpose of a P.A. is exactly that. Sound reinforcement. If you have an amp that can fill that room, turn it up, no reinforcement needed.

And it's funny because when I play larger venues I have no issues at all. I've played House of Blues in 5 different states and no one asked me to turn my rig down. Granted, I don't play at crankedf plexi volumes anyway. But definitely some volume. Leveled with the drums. But I never had an issue on a larger venue.
It's always the mid-small venues that are a problem because the soundguy wants everything to come out of the P.A and nothing from the stage, but the place is not big enough to actually have a good way to do that. Just let the band breath and add PA where it's needed how hard is that.
A few months ago, we played a show on this venue here and the guy turned us down so low that in the middle of the show Kimmi's mic went out and she continues to sign loud and clear over the "band sound" . She's a loud singer but still. It's pretty ridiculous.

That's why when I hear that modelers are indistinguishable from amps I say it's because soundguys are making amps sound as deflated as modelers. Modelers are not catching up, amp are being dialed down. Let me dial my amp where it actually should be and let's see the modeler catch up to that. There is no comparison. But if you ask me to set to bedroom level, then yeah.. pretty similar. However, bedroom volume should be used in the bedroom, not in a live rock show.