Gibson is offering double cream pickups now

[facefirst]

Having a trademark on a color is very common and it serves a purpose. Start a lawnmower business and paint them green and yellow, see how long until John Deere's attorney comes calling. There are many examples of a color trademark.

The Dimarzio thing may seem unnecessary in 2023 but it wasn't in 1973. I can remember those days and you could tell a player was using Dimarzios from 100 feet away. It was their billboard. I saw Ace Frehley using double creams and knew they were Dimarzios, I didn't have to ask anyone. That was huge in those days when the only pickups available were Dimarzios and whatever came stock in your guitar.

Deere actually doesn't have a trademark on the color green. That was shot down.

[GuitarBilly]

Having a trademark on a color is very common and it serves a purpose. Start a lawnmower business and paint them green and yellow, see how long until John Deere's attorney comes calling. There are many examples of a color trademark.

The Dimarzio thing may seem unnecessary in 2023 but it wasn't in 1973. I can remember those days and you could tell a player was using Dimarzios from 100 feet away. It was their billboard. I saw Ace Frehley using double creams and knew they were Dimarzios, I didn't have to ask anyone. That was huge in those days when the only pickups available were Dimarzios and whatever came stock in your guitar.

Deere actually doesn't have a trademark on the color green. That was shot down.

They actually won the case a few years ago and do own the trademark.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 38162.html


It's not on the "color green" though, no one owns a color. It's on a green/yellow paint scheme and only when applied to farming equipment. Same with DiMarzio, they don't own "cream pickups". For example, cream single coils were never an issue. It's just specific to the product they applied the trademark for.

[GuitarBilly]

Having a trademark on a color is very common and it serves a purpose. Start a lawnmower business and paint them green and yellow, see how long until John Deere's attorney comes calling. There are many examples of a color trademark.

The Dimarzio thing may seem unnecessary in 2023 but it wasn't in 1973. I can remember those days and you could tell a player was using Dimarzios from 100 feet away. It was their billboard. I saw Ace Frehley using double creams and knew they were Dimarzios, I didn't have to ask anyone. That was huge in those days when the only pickups available were Dimarzios and whatever came stock in your guitar.

I agree with this. It made sense back then, it was DiMarzio who made the double cream look a classic look. These days, not so much. I doubt that double cream pickups are their biggest sellers. DiMarzio is more associated with superstrats and shredders than with LPs these days and it's been that way since the 80s. I got into DiMarzio because of the Vai, Satch, Petrucci etc signature pickups available and they seem to be following the same strategy now with models for modern bands like Gojira, Polyphia etc.. so their classic look is not that important anymore. They're not a "retro" company and managed to stay relevant with modern artists on pretty much every decade they've been in business. Good for them but it's time to let go of the old trademarks. It doesn't mean much anymore.

[greatmutah]

Yeah I forgot about the 70s and them getting off the ground and probably using/needing it then. Easy to do as I didn’t live through it. By the time I got to playing guitars DiMarzio was marketed for shredders and superstrats like Billy said. It wasn’t until years later I learned there even was a trademark.

[EndTime]

Don’t know if it was posted here. But it’s a decent history of it all. Kinda long winded at times , for me anyway. He goes over his use of cream. Not much different than mentioned but he definitely claims back then everythin in the companies marketing was more or less cream color.. Guess gotta take him as his word as I wasn’t there. Makes sense of course. But it also just seems like a shrewd business move at a time when that sort of thing was how it was done. Cause I want to say there were in fact double cream Gibson’s, under the covers, well before Dimarzio did it. I swear I remember reading how Gibson would mix match zebra, black, and cream under the covers. No rhyme or reason back then. Just what they had. Same with the magnets. Alnico 2,3,4 and 5 were all used during the “classic” PAF era.

https://www.dimarzio.com/stories/birth-super-distortion

[EndTime]

and just fast forwarding to the section he speaks of cream. I think it pretty much verifies my memory that Gibson had double cream, as he says Dimarzio was the first NO COVER double cream pickup offered.

Then I had an idea, “Can we make the bobbins cream?” That way everyone would be able to identify my pickups at fifty feet away in a dark smokey club (just like my tape idea but better). I found a cream-colored plastic sheet that I liked, and I began producing the first DiMarzio Cream Super Distortion® pickups. Once I could afford a mold, I mixed my custom cream color that DiMarzio eventually trademarked and still uses today. I was making everything cream, even the company price lists and catalogues were printed on cream paper stock.

I wanted DiMarzio pickups recognizable from the back of the room in a dark club. Keep in mind that all of Gibson humbucking pickups including the “Patent Applied For” were made with metal covers soldered to the base plate. The Super Distortion® was the first no cover double cream bobbin humbucking pickup. I continued with my color identity when I designed my DiMarzio Model P®, DiMarzio Model J™ (the world’s first Jazz and Precision replacements), the SDS-1™, and more all in DiMarzio cream.

[GuitarBilly]

Cause I want to say there were in fact double cream Gibson’s, under the covers, well before Dimarzio did it.

yeah you're right, but they were not meant to be exposed. It was just what they had on hand at the time. Open black PAFs were a thing because of Page, but other than that people kept them covered.
DiMarzio was really the one who started the double cream humbucker as a look/feature. And it did become their trademark look. All the iconic 70's guitars you see with double creams, whether it's Ace, Joe Perry etc.. those were all DiMarzios, not PAFs.

[EndTime]

True. Gibson didn’t foresee people pulling the covers, but people definitely did pull covers. Certainly Dimarzio brought it to the forefront by selling em that way, cause as far as the old Gibson’s, you truly wouldn’t know what the pickup was until you pulled the cover. But just the whole, “so then I thought, Hey can we make it cream?” Uhh.. Yeah. You know like all those Gibson’s you likely took apart and worked on in your earlier years. Lol

[greatmutah]

I wonder what prompted folks to start pulling the covers in the first place. I mean, this something we just do and take for granted now but who thought this up in the first place and why? Did someone just wonder what they looked like and then compared the sound of the pickup uncovered Vs covered? Or was it a microphonics issue, a tech pulled the cover and that fixed the problem so they just kept it that way?

[GuitarBilly]

I wonder what prompted folks to start pulling the covers in the first place. I mean, this something we just do and take for granted now but who thought this up in the first place and why? Did someone just wonder what they looked like and then compared the sound of the pickup uncovered Vs covered? Or was it a microphonics issue, a tech pulled the cover and that fixed the problem so they just kept it that way?

Yeah, with bigger amps (Marshalls etc) the covers caused microphonic feedback, so removing them was a way to tame the squeals a bit. Potting the coils wasn't a thing until the late 70's.

Page also claimed that the open pickup had more treble and bite, which is true to some degree.

I am not sure if Page was the first to remove the covers but he certainly was the one who made it popular. Beck did it very early one too, but Page and Beck ran in the same circles and even played together in The Yardbirds so it was probably an idea that was going around in that scene/time.

[BleedingWhiskey]

I wonder what prompted folks to start pulling the covers in the first place. I mean, this something we just do and take for granted now but who thought this up in the first place and why? Did someone just wonder what they looked like and then compared the sound of the pickup uncovered Vs covered? Or was it a microphonics issue, a tech pulled the cover and that fixed the problem so they just kept it that way?

I believe is was microphonic issues at first. Then guitarists started liking the look of it and followed suit. Some said it increased the gain a slight bit. I guess because you could get the coils a bit closer to the strings without the covers? I'm not. I think alot of guitarists just liked the look of it, so builders follow suit.

[Devin]

Anecdotal but a friend of mine has an Epiphone SG from the 90's and one day we pulled the covers off the stock humbuckers. It definitely seemed to be hotter/more treble-y without the covers and we both agreed it sounded better that way

I'm sure that not all cover materials are the same so idk if this same logic applies to every pickup out there

[spawnofthesith]

Anecdotal but a friend of mine has an Epiphone SG from the 90's and one day we pulled the covers off the stock humbuckers. It definitely seemed to be hotter/more treble-y without the covers and we both agreed it sounded better that way

I'm sure that not all cover materials are the same so idk if this same logic applies to every pickup out there

I feel like this has been pretty well demonstrated to be the case with covers vs. not


I don't care tho, I'll take a slight tonal hit for the aesthetic of covers

[Devin]

Anecdotal but a friend of mine has an Epiphone SG from the 90's and one day we pulled the covers off the stock humbuckers. It definitely seemed to be hotter/more treble-y without the covers and we both agreed it sounded better that way

I'm sure that not all cover materials are the same so idk if this same logic applies to every pickup out there


I feel like this has been pretty well demonstrated to be the case with covers vs. not

Another thing we discovered is those old Epi G400's are absolutely NOT made out of "mahogany" like they used to advertise...he had one of the black finished ones and one day sanded the finish off. The wood underneath was some bright ass yellow lookin wood

[greatmutah]

Anecdotal but a friend of mine has an Epiphone SG from the 90's and one day we pulled the covers off the stock humbuckers. It definitely seemed to be hotter/more treble-y without the covers and we both agreed it sounded better that way

I'm sure that not all cover materials are the same so idk if this same logic applies to every pickup out there


I feel like this has been pretty well demonstrated to be the case with covers vs. not

Another thing we discovered is those old Epi G400's are absolutely NOT made out of "mahogany" like they used to advertise...he had one of the black finished ones and one day sanded the finish off. The wood underneath was some bright ass yellow lookin wood

Truth. I had an MIK Epi LP Classic that pit EMGs into. It was my second tuning live guitar (my Gibson Studio bring my main) when I started gigging. Nice transparent red with a quilted top. At some point it got a chip on the side near the back and I don’t know what it was exactly but it sure as hell was not mahogany It didn’t matter a ton because once the EMGs went in they never came out and the EMGs made up for wood short comings.

[screamingdaisy]

A lot of people talk about how removing the covers adds some top end, but what usually isn't mentioned is that adding the covers can add midrange honk. To me, it's 50s vs 70s sounding... which makes sense when you consider the history of it.

Personally, I like uncovered bridge with a covered neck. I think the cover helps counter the PAFs scoop, and for me it makes the neck a little less muddy. In the bridge I like the extra bite.

Should also be mentioned that not all covers are equal, so results may vary. Seymour Duncan for example is said to use a neutral material that doesn't affect the sound.

[Dave]

fwiw my dad pulled the covers on his, now my, 64 SG. He was always adamant the pickups were slightly hotter uncovered. I'm sure it was a decent enough difference back in the 70s when guitarists were trying to squeeze all the gain they could out of a rig.

also, it's Tuesday and Larry DiMarzio still sucks