DIY build - garage studio ALMOST DONE!

[Tortuga]

Carpet install scheduled for Friday AM. COOL!

[ajaxlepinski]

I sat in on an Audio Engineering Society lecture on the math behind diffusers a few years ago.
There are formulas for figuring out what specific frequencies will bounce around depending on the dimensions of the room and what the reflective surfaces are made of.
...and they have formulas for designing the attenuators meant to reduce or eliminate the frequencies that have been identified.
It was all very interesting but, it all boiled down to: the softer and more irregular your diffuser is, the better.

Each time a sound wave bounces off something or, when it makes a turn, it loses energy.
You've got that figured out and worked into your air exchange baffle design.

I think you're good to go!

[Tortuga]

All good info, and much appreciated. I'm going to try to build up one of those 18 x 18 diffuser panels this weekend and see what it'll do. I may get busy and build up the Rockwool corner bass traps and maybe a couple of absorption panels, too.

Should I mount diffuser panels throughout the room, surrounded by absorption panels spread throughout the remaining area (especially where first reflections would be caught in the listening position?

Any thoughts on whether or not a diffuser on the ceiling would be helpful? I was thinking that I'd put an absorption panel up there, but I have seen quite a few rooms that have diffusers there, either alone or in conjunction with absorption. I can do testing on the walls fairly easy without damaging much, but the ceiling is kind of tough, if it doesn't work out.

I'll try to draw up something tomorrow to illustrate how I plan to set the room up as part-time rehearsal / part time recording space.

Thanks!

[Tortuga]

Yesterday was big - carpet is now installed!

Lotsa padding / sound absorption



And the finished product





Results are very good. Made a big difference in reducing the amount of echo, but I've still got quite a bit of flutter (I think that's what it's called) that lingers for some time after clapping my hands. Hopefully bass traps and absorption panels will kill most of that. I'm really wondering if I need to put some stuff on the ceiling...

And, of course, anyone following this story knows I love to include my kids. I think I mentioned earlier that I've done this on most of the things I've built over the years. It's a pretty cool time capsule - if I live here long enough, I may get to see it again some day







Started working on corner bass traps right after they finished up the carpet installation. No pics yet, but should have something to post soon.

[skybluegary]

[BlackWolf]

Man, it's looking really bad ass!!

[Tortuga]

:thu:

Man, it's looking really bad ass!!

Thanks for the props!

Really liking the new carpet. Really made a huge difference working in the room this weekend, in that I'm not going nearly insane whenever a noise gets made . My youngest had been asking what I was going to do with all the loud echo, and his first comment when he walked in to see the new carpet was how much better everything sounded. I was also able to enjoy the new electrical power and sound improvements by actually having my laptop and speakers in the room for the first time, and worked with all the Bon Scott era AC/DC albums on random play!

Here's a pic of where I got to on Friday, after spending quite a bit of the mid-day figuring out exactly how I was going to build the bass traps and do the baseboards & door casing. This includes the general setup of my recording area (I'll be building up a desk in the next couple of months), including my DIY monitor stands and the beginnings of the first corner trap.



Spent quite a bit of time Saturday and Sunday working on the traps. I'll try to get some pics up in the next day or so. At this point, I've installed all the framework and rockwool corner pieces, and built & painted 3 of the 4 frames that will be covered in black fabric and installed onto the corner framework to hide everything. It was amazing to hear the improvement in sound & echo reduction as I loaded each of the corners, but I've still not quite gotten rid of all the echo. I'm still hearing a short 'slapback' whenever I clap my hands or snap my fingers, which I'm guessing will be quite noticeable when I load in my amp and give the room a run.

Planning to finish up the traps this week (corner 4 has turned out to be a challenge, due to the power outlet being in the way), then will hit the baseboard and door moldings before (FINALLY!) loading my gear in this weekend for what I hope is the last time.

[Tortuga]

I'm hoping that I can get some help - I'll try posting this here before reaching out to the main gear forum with a separate posting...

There's been comments by readers made throughout this build about acoustic treatments - especially with my almost square room (13' x 11') and somewhat low ceiling (7-1/2 feet). For anyone reading this, I'd certainly appreciate any input as to what I should do next. I do intend to build up some wall panels and place them at the various points that should reduce the first reflections from the recording monitors, but I'm also using this as a jam room and would really like to get a handle on the echo by strategically placing panels rather than just putting things up just or the sake of doing so. Should I be spacing tall or short panels throughout the perimeter and/or the ceiling? How much should I be covering them? Should I be looking primarily at absorption or dispersion panels, or some mix of both? What mix, and where would they be most effective?

What to do... what to do... .what to do...

[clipless bumper]

ok - this is based only on a WAG - not any real knowledge - but I would think a panel on one wall would cancel the reflection from the opposite wall directly across from it.

So if you had a panel in the center of one wall - the opposite wall would only need panels at the ends - kind of alternating.
This will eliminate the number of panels you need, and possibly keep the room from looking so symmetrical.

I have no idea about the ceiling - but I would think the carpet has helped tremendously with the vertical reflections.

[Tortuga]

ok - this is based only on a WAG - not any real knowledge - but I would think a panel on one wall would cancel the reflection from the opposite wall directly across from it.

So if you had a panel in the center of one wall - the opposite wall would only need panels at the ends - kind of alternating.
This will eliminate the number of panels you need, and possibly keep the room from looking so symmetrical.

I have no idea about the ceiling - but I would think the carpet has helped tremendously with the vertical reflections.

Good info, and much appreciated!

Here's something I drew, taking what you said into consideration. On the top and bottom walls, I went with similar panels on both sides, due to the need of eliminating first reflections from the side monitors and factoring the door - perhaps I should cover the door as well, which will take care of the main gap between top and bottom walls? Side walls are staggered according to what you state.

Additional design note - I plan to hang guitars and other stuff (signed memorabilia, album covers, artwork, etc.) between the panels. I'm not sure where the amps and PA speakers will go, especially if I ever do get a drum set in there (a small one, hopefully), so I just drew a couple in there for starters. The room is intended to be multi-purpose: rehearsals / jams, and select recording / mixing. I know this isn't going to be a perfect situation for either - just doing the best I can (which will probably be a lot for me!).



Please let me know what you (or anyone else) thinks. This becomes a lot of panels, but is certainly doable. The big drawback is that I reduce the effective size of the room, but it's something I figured would happen.

[clipless bumper]

I would put the PA speakers in front of the bass traps just outside your monitors, putting back at the bass amps.
In this room they are really nothing more than vocal monitors.

As I've said before, my room is about this same exact size and I have a pretty large drum set.
To get it to fit reasonably I had to stick it in a corner.
I'll do my best tonight to post some pics.

[Tortuga]

Yes, please post pics. Most anxious to see what you have. Sorry I forgot that you had stated you had similar size room.

I do plan to use the PA primarily for vox only when others with me, but will also use for dialing sounds on my Pod for my church gig. Also planned on drums in corner, opposite to the desk.

Very encouraging that you have a large drum set and able to make it work.

[Krunchmeister]

Flutter echo is the most annoying. Those big sheets of acoustic foam are really good for that. My uncle helped put carpet in Grand Funks studio in Michigan. They ran it from the floors up the walls to the ceiling!

[clipless bumper]

ok - some pics of my room.
I guess it is a bit larger than yours - by a few feet in one dimension.
my ceiling is about the same as yours - somewhere around 7'-5"
All I have for treatments are packing blankets and wall hangings
(and a parachute)
Some of my amps are sitting on my vintage 'tube' TV!!
apologies for the crappy pics

A pic as you enter the room - the dimension along the wall the amps are on is 12'-8"
the door is in a corner of the room


looking further to the right - the drumset is in the corner
guitar cases and speaker boxes stored behind it


turning to the next wall is my bass gear, fridge, and computer desk.
this wall is 14' long - so that is where I pick up some space on you.


a shot from behind the drums shows you the rest of the room, back to the door


and a final shot of the guitars and the other 4x12 in the room
(just waiting for a head for this one......)


the room is fairly dead - there is some bass reinforcement just from it being a small room, but I don't really notice any 'flutter' echo, or bad reverbs. One thing I'll say - in that room, the five watt combo gets plenty loud.

[Tortuga]

Flutter echo is the most annoying. Those big sheets of acoustic foam are really good for that. My uncle helped put carpet in Grand Funks studio in Michigan. They ran it from the floors up the walls to the ceiling!

Heya - thanks for chiming in. Although I'm nowhere near an expert on the different types of echo, I'd definitely agree that what I'm dealing with now fits my perception of what a 'flutter' would be - clapping from anywhere in the room gives this dull, rapid stutter - almost like a short slapback delay. It's certainly better than the cavernous reverb I was dealing with before carpet, but still not ideal.

My brother is building lockout studios at his commercial building. He's building them as rehearsal spaces - not intended for recording - so the primary objective is killing sound before it leaves the room. He demo'd an old movie theater a while back, and the owner let him take the wall coverings - wound up scoring a ton of pressed fiberglass boards that he's mounting onto the walls and then running carpet (loosely) over them. Makes the build much faster, since he's not concerned with finishing the drywall and painting things. It's pretty effective - when I walked in and we shut the door, it felt like my head was totally congested and talking sounded completely flat. Probably really good for a band rehearsing, but not what I was going for in terms of sound or aesthetics.

[Tortuga]

ok - some pics of my room.
I guess it is a bit larger than yours - by a few feet in one dimension.
my ceiling is about the same as yours - somewhere around 7'-5"
All I have for treatments are packing blankets and wall hangings
(and a parachute)
Some of my amps are sitting on my vintage 'tube' TV!!
apologies for the crappy pics

A pic as you enter the room - the dimension along the wall the amps are on is 12'-8"
the door is in a corner of the room

looking further to the right - the drumset is in the corner
guitar cases and speaker boxes stored behind it

turning to the next wall is my bass gear, fridge, and computer desk.
this wall is 14' long - so that is where I pick up some space on you.

a shot from behind the drums shows you the rest of the room, back to the door

and a final shot of the guitars and the other 4x12 in the room
(just waiting for a head for this one......)

the room is fairly dead - there is some bass reinforcement just from it being a small room, but I don't really notice any 'flutter' echo, or bad reverbs. One thing I'll say - in that room, the five watt combo gets plenty loud.

Wow! This is really great - looks like you've got some killer gear in there. It does look like you've got a foot on my in either direction, but that doesn't change the fact that you're working with a nearly square room like I am, as opposed to the rectangular dimensions that appear to be more favorable.

How many ppl do you have jamming in there at any given time - it looks like a drummer, bass player, two guitars, with possibly one of them (you?) singing.

Hard to believe you've got a couch in there, too. Love the parachute - is it helping with sound, or just there for fun? Am I seeing two A/C units? What are you doing with the exhausted (hot) air they create? Also, are you doing much in the way of recording? And tell me you're using that old reel-to-reel

Really appreciate the help!

[Tortuga]

Let's build some bass traps. As I understand it, these are effective in absorbing bass frequencies that get built up in the corners of a room, and keeps them from reverberating and artificially boosting the low end of what's going on in the room. These traps help to flatten the frequency spectrum, taking the 'sound' of the room out of what I'm hearing when recording or jamming with friends, and (from a sound standpoint) making the room feel larger.

There's a ton of info out there on how people are building these corner traps. I like the 'superchunk' style and have decided to go that route - they're pretty much out of the way, easy to build, and fairly inexpensive to DIY as opposed to commercially available units. Later on, I'll build some absorption panels later for the walls, and may do a dispersion panel (or two, or more), to deal with the other frequencies and the flutter echo I'm experiencing.

The basic design of this type of trap is to load triangular pieces of Rockwool insulation from floor to ceiling. The insulation comes in different sizes, but the big box stores I'm buying from only carry the 15-1/2" style that's used in standard (US) construction. Therefore, my triangles will be 15-1/2 inches on the sides, and almost 22 inches across the front. Since this insulation comes in 48" long batts that are about 3" thick, I can get 6 triangles per batt, which winds up a little less than 1-1/2 feet high when stacked. I'm building 4 of these, so it'll take a little less than 2 bags (12 batts / bag) that cost me $41 each.

Since the Rockwool won't hold itself in place, and will compress itself over time, I'm going to separate the vertical pieces into to near-equal stacks using a shelf mounted on the walls. There's also a concern over people being sensitive / allergic to Rockwool fibers in the air, so I'll need to seal these stacks with some type of breathable material that traps fibers (I'm using lightweight polyester batting), but still lets sound pass through. Lastly, the stacks are unsightly, so I'll build a frame that'll be covered in black burlap (cheap, very breathable, and doesn't look too bad), and install it into each corner.

So, for costs, I'm in about $60-$70 for the Rockwool (with some left over for other absorption panels), another $20 for 1"x3"x8' "furring strips" that have to be hand-selected from a pile of crap lumber (what do you expect for $0.99 each?), and about $30 for burlap and batting. Something like $120 - more if I didn't already have the needed hardware and tools to do the job. For that, I get a custom install for probably a 3rd or less of the cost of what I'd pay at one of the places that actually carry the stuff, not to mention the shipping that'd be on top.

Ok - science class is over. Here come the pics...

[Tortuga]

Triangle frames. 3 per trap (actually used 5 on the 'problem' corner to be discussed below). I used pieces of cardboard to protect the carpet and to seal the top. I dropped the height an inch below the ceiling so I can install some lights (probably ropes) along the top of the walls later, and still have access to the upper corners. The middle frames have a light piece of plywood to separate the stacks.

Cut pieces


Assembly - pocket screws are the bomb!


Here's what the triangles look like when they're assembled, alongside some Rockwool triangles - note, I didn't actually cut the front pieces until the sides were fastened to the walls - every one of the fronts was a different length, because the walls aren't perfectly flat & square (nothing made with rough construction lumber ever will be )



And, finally - installation







Middle frame / shelf







And, the final stack(s). It's amazing how much the sound in the room changed / flattened as each corner went in. Was also noticed by every family member that came in over the weekend to see if I was still alive



...to be continued

[neilrocks25]

I just came in to say, fantastic

[nakedzen]

Looks great! I just use cheap Ikea bookcases for diffusers. I don't really see a point of making or buying those.

Although I have the Vicoustics panels that work as diffusers as well as bass traps. They're just thin sheets of plywood with holes on them glued onto the bass trap foam. Looks like this:



Might want to look into that as an option for diffusers, they should be really easy to make and place on top of your bass traps.

[clipless bumper]

blah blah blah

Wow! This is really great - looks like you've got some killer gear in there. It does look like you've got a foot on my in either direction, but that doesn't change the fact that you're working with a nearly square room like I am, as opposed to the rectangular dimensions that appear to be more favorable.

How many ppl do you have jamming in there at any given time - it looks like a drummer, bass player, two guitars, with possibly one of them (you?) singing.

Hard to believe you've got a couch in there, too. Love the parachute - is it helping with sound, or just there for fun? Am I seeing two A/C units? What are you doing with the exhausted (hot) air they create? Also, are you doing much in the way of recording? And tell me you're using that old reel-to-reel

Really appreciate the help!

Most of the time its just me in the room, but up to three people (guitar, bass, drums)

The parachute is a very thin nylon - so I doubt it is doing much for sound - mainly put it up just cause it was laying around and was colorful.

There is one a/c unit (but the ampeg). This is a basement room - and right behind that packing blanket, there is a window up high on the wall - the a/c unit vents out that window.
The other unit is a dehumidifier - being in a basement, during the spring/summer it can get damp - I usually just have the de-humidifier on automatic, and turn it off when I am in the room.

I used to have a reel-to-reel back in my college days BCD (before CD's) - I picked this one up at a yard sale with a bunch of tapes for like $20 - but haven't really used it yet. Maybe this will be enough of a kick in the pants to actually record something.

[Tortuga]

I just came in to say, fantastic

Arigatō!

Looks great! I just use cheap Ikea bookcases for diffusers. I don't really see a point of making or buying those.

Although I have the Vicoustics panels that work as diffusers as well as bass traps. They're just thin sheets of plywood with holes on them glued onto the bass trap foam. Looks like this:



Might want to look into that as an option for diffusers, they should be really easy to make and place on top of your bass traps.

These look really cool - I think I saw them posted (by you?) in the "share my room" thread. I wonder if they can be DIY'd, or if there's some crazy science to the cuts based on panel size and material being used to back it up. Hmmmm

Most of the time its just me in the room, but up to three people (guitar, bass, drums)

The parachute is a very thin nylon - so I doubt it is doing much for sound - mainly put it up just cause it was laying around and was colorful.

There is one a/c unit (but the ampeg). This is a basement room - and right behind that packing blanket, there is a window up high on the wall - the a/c unit vents out that window.
The other unit is a dehumidifier - being in a basement, during the spring/summer it can get damp - I usually just have the de-humidifier on automatic, and turn it off when I am in the room.

I used to have a reel-to-reel back in my college days BCD (before CD's) - I picked this one up at a yard sale with a bunch of tapes for like $20 - but haven't really used it yet. Maybe this will be enough of a kick in the pants to actually record something.

I like the parachute - certainly does bring color to the room! Do you know if noise is a problem where the A/C vents out? I am concerned about condensation building up in the room - especially when several people are in there. I think the unit I have serves as a dehumidifier, but when I tried that last summer, it built up water in the 'puke can', to the point that it shut itself off and I had to drain it. What does your unit do with the water it removes from the air? Really do like the reel-to-reel. Hope you do use it!

Thanks again for all the help and encouragement, everyone - this has been a real fun project to share

[clipless bumper]

I like the parachute - certainly does bring color to the room! Do you know if noise is a problem where the A/C vents out? I am concerned about condensation building up in the room - especially when several people are in there. I think the unit I have serves as a dehumidifier, but when I tried that last summer, it built up water in the 'puke can', to the point that it shut itself off and I had to drain it. What does your unit do with the water it removes from the air? Really do like the reel-to-reel. Hope you do use it!

I haven't had a problem with the A/C - I only use it when I am actually in the room - so far, it has been able to evaporate away.
The dehumidifer is left on auto when I'm not in the room - it needs to be emptied every few days.

[Tortuga]

I like the parachute - certainly does bring color to the room! Do you know if noise is a problem where the A/C vents out? I am concerned about condensation building up in the room - especially when several people are in there. I think the unit I have serves as a dehumidifier, but when I tried that last summer, it built up water in the 'puke can', to the point that it shut itself off and I had to drain it. What does your unit do with the water it removes from the air? Really do like the reel-to-reel. Hope you do use it!

I haven't had a problem with the A/C - I only use it when I am actually in the room - so far, it has been able to evaporate away.
The dehumidifer is left on auto when I'm not in the room - it needs to be emptied every few days.

I'm wondering how much sound in the room will actually make its way out through the A/C vent. I don't want to undo all the work we've done to keep all the sound in the room, but I'm pretty concerned about running the exhaust through a muffler that may cause too much back pressure on the unit, which may damage it. I had planned to put an inline fan on the output of the box, but I have no idea how to size it properly, as neither the manufacturer and the service center I called have any specs on output CFM for that unit.

Any of you know anything technical about portable A/C units?

[Tortuga]

Let me add - thanks again to all of you for your help and props. It does help to know that there's interest in what I'm doing, and I can see by the large number of view counts that continue to jump whenever this thread gets bumped that there must be a lot of you. This project certainly has been a challenge, and definitely not for the feint of heart - I hope that it's helping any of you that have been thinking about doing a project like this to either go for it, or run like hell away from it and go rent a lock-out!

I do have a bunch more to say about bass traps, and will hopefully continue later tonight or tomorrow morning. I've got a day off tomorrow as well, so I should be able to get the rest of the traps done, then will start loading in gear