500 Series Modules... Where to start?

[colejustesen]

To start off, this modular system is way fucking cool! So much versatility to be had. I was looking on Sweetwater at the different modules as well as the units to put the modules in. There are so many options, I was a bit overwhelmed. Can you guys recommend a specific modular unit for starting out? I also don't know many slots would be beneficial for someone like me, who just records himself at home. I hope that later in the future I can start accruing some recording gear and learn some engineering techniques to help record my friends' bands. I know this is really a loaded question, but do you guys think a 6 slot is too much to start with?

Also, since there are so many modules, what are some of the ones you guys have used and loved/disliked. Thanks! I have been getting so much more excited about recording gear than guitar gear as of late... I am fucking hooked! Also, do you guys recommend any specific literature to help someone get a better grasp on different approaches, theories, and techniques on how to be a studio engineer?

Cole

[BroSlinger]

Get a bigger box than you think you need.

Get a warm audio wa-12 500 preamp

Look into a 500 series compressor from fmr audio.


Fwiw, I don't have a 500 series setup yet, but I wish I did.

[fretless]

There are many boxes available but for me I'd go with the long proven and road tested . That is API or Brent Averill . I would go with a 6 slot but there are 2 slotters available but these are not cheap and it would get you very close to a 6 slot anyway . When I put mine together I went with the idea of using it for live recordings for ex. 2 of the same for overheads , kick , snare , comp and eq . The over heads preamp are API 512 and work with everything , bass , acoustic , guitar , vocals , infact most of them do . There are some that are classic inspired modules that work well for a guitar voice , such as Neve or Trident but these still work well for whatever you use them for . So 4 preamps will get you bass , guitar ,vocal , guitar live , or drums live and option eq or comp in the chain . Pros will have several lunchboxes , they will have their vocal box , guitar box and drum box etc etc . Start light , get the box and get a preamp . build as you go . it took me like 5 years to finish mine which I just did last year . I just didn't need them so I never finished it . I did trade and buy used at gear sluts which is great and more high end gear goes through there then Ocean Way . Nothing is better then a good pre as your front end . After that it's all skill but at least you will know getting into the recorder is done right. You can't have enough preamps , You may like one for bass or one on female vocals or one on guitar and another on the snare , etc etc . Rack pre's are killer too , Demeter , Joe Meek , Neve , API , they all make one so even if you fill up 10 lunch boxes you may still fill up 10 racks too . Got monies ?

[colejustesen]

Get a bigger box than you think you need.

Get a warm audio wa-12 500 preamp

Look into a 500 series compressor from fmr audio.


Fwiw, I don't have a 500 series setup yet, but I wish I did.

I really don't know what I need or don't need, lol... The world of recording is still very new to me, as I haven't explored it very much. I have been recording my guitar playing for several years now, but really haven't looked any further than an interface and tube mic preamps as far as hardware goes. I would assume a 6 unit rack would probably be more than sufficient for me. I figure I could make a decent chain of processing with that amount.

I have read that some are backwards compatible, whatever that means, I figure that would be a good feature to have. It seems like some chassis have a bit more going on with them as far as adjustments on the front panel and different connectivity options on the back. Does anyone know what would be considered a necessity as far as these options go?

Thanks for the info so far!

Cole

[colejustesen]

There are many boxes available but for me I'd go with the long proven and road tested . That is API or Brent Averill . I would go with a 6 slot but there are 2 slotters available but these are not cheap and it would get you very close to a 6 slot anyway . When I put mine together I went with the idea of using it for live recordings for ex. 2 of the same for overheads , kick , snare , comp and eq . The over heads preamp are API 512 and work with everything , bass , acoustic , guitar , vocals , infact most of them do . There are some that are classic inspired modules that work well for a guitar voice , such as Neve or Trident but these still work well for whatever you use them for . So 4 preamps will get you bass , guitar ,vocal , guitar live , or drums live and option eq or comp in the chain . Pros will have several lunchboxes , they will have their vocal box , guitar box and drum box etc etc . Start light , get the box and get a preamp . build as you go . it took me like 5 years to finish mine which I just did last year . I just didn't need them so I never finished it . I did trade and buy used at gear sluts which is great and more high end gear goes through there then Ocean Way . Nothing is better then a good pre as your front end . After that it's all skill but at least you will know getting into the recorder is done right. You can't have enough preamps , You may like one for bass or one on female vocals or one on guitar and another on the snare , etc etc . Rack pre's are killer too , Demeter , Joe Meek , Neve , API , they all make one so even if you fill up 10 lunch boxes you may still fill up 10 racks too . Got monies ?

Thanks Fretless! Right now I don't have tons of money flowing in... I will be graduating from pharmacy school next May, so I will have a substantial increase in my income (granted I will be paying for student loans too). I was looking at the API 500-6B, Rupert Neve R6, and Lindell Audio 510 Power for chassis options.

I really appreciate your input! Do you have any suggestions for recording/engineering books that could help me learn technique, theory, etc.?

Cole

[fretless]

The new lunchboxes have enhanced power supplies that are able to power all modules , some double space modules use a lot of juice and the vintage lunchbox may or maynot have been able to power all those . These days they sorted that out so no worries . The current gen boxes all have DB-25 connectors which is smart , this lets you jack into a patch bay at a desk . Not needed but useful especially for the pro studio . There is no learning cuve with a lunchbox . They are very simple to use . Just plug in and turn of the gain until the level is correct . an EQ and comp can be a little more tricky but it's not rocket science . Actual engineering is a whole'nother world of shit you can hack your way through it , go to school for it or read up on it . I would strongly recommend you spend some time at gear sluts . There are all levels to learn at over there from starting to master engineers dropping in and talking shop . The more you do it the more you get a grasp of it . I think you are starting at a good place . A preamp and that modular system can be built on as you go . I would buy the box and buy one preamp for starters . Get a API 512 or a BAE 312 and you can use that for everything you need a pre for . Here is my box and a few ex of how I would use it

you can plug into a pre in this box there are 4 , the first 4 slots are pres , with the shadow hills having switchable input transformers , this is essentially 3 different preamps in one. Some of these pre's don't have a 1/4" input so if you wanted to use it for bass or guitar you would need a DI box and jack into the back xlr after the DI . Some do have a 1/4" . This does have an affect on the sound as they have input transformers that color the sound as well as the color of the DI box .etc etc. after that pre I would go either right to my interface or loop over to the EQ or the comp for additional channel strip control of the signal . I like to have a comp before the input of my interface to "ride" the level , this keeps me from clipping the input of the recorder / interface or DAW . However I do sometimes us a plugin on the input of the DAW to do the same thing as long as I don't clip the interface it's workable . Notice how simple my comp is and how complex the eq is but for the most part the pre's are stupid simple to use , plug in , turn up , check levels . Rock !

[colejustesen]

Thanks Fretless... I will be keeping an eye out for a used API Lunchbox! That is a cool setup you have there!!!

Cole

[fretless]

Thanks Fretless... I will be keeping an eye out for a used API Lunchbox! That is a cool setup you have there!!!

Cole

Thanks Dude . It's good stuff, you can't really go wrong going down that road . Cheers

[ajaxlepinski]

That API box looks sweet.
I bought a 3 slot Lindel box which is fine for me but, I'm not happy with the female screw mounts on the front - they strip real easy.
If I wind up needing more than 3 slots, I'd definitely get that API.

Right now, I'm just using my luchbox it to enhance vocals before they get digitized... Heritage Audio 73 Jr preamp, Really Nice Compressor and and empty slot for an Aphex Aural Exciter down the road.
I won the preamp in a review writing contest on Gearslutz.com... now if I could only hit the lottery!!!

[fretless]

these things are great and it's a great way to get a killer rig in a small portable package but if you are only going to track one or 2 things then building a rack may be money better spent . For ex . one BAE 312 , a interface , a power strip a comp and eq this and that etc etc . there are also some killer desktop units such as the UA 610 or Great river . it would be cheaper assuming you don't need to fill a lunch box .

[colejustesen]

these things are great and it's a great way to get a killer rig in a small portable package but if you are only going to track one or 2 things then building a rack may be money better spent . For ex . one BAE 312 , a interface , a power strip a comp and eq this and that etc etc . there are also some killer desktop units such as the UA 610 or Great river . it would be cheaper assuming you don't need to fill a lunch box .

I am only recording myself right now, but I want to get to a point where I am recording full bands (for my buddies)... I think a 6 slot might be overkill, but it will give me room to grow.

Cole

[Markdude]

Remember that unless you get the Aphex USB 500 chassis (which has A/D to D/A converters and USB connectivity, so it's an actual interface), you're going to need to convert those signals to digital somehow (unless you go super old school and don't use a DAW of any kind), and interfaces designed for standalone A/D-D/A are crazy, crazy expensive. So you'll have to run the outputs into line inputs on the interface you already have, and if those inputs don't bypass your interface's preamps (which is very common), it's kind of a waste buying really nice preamps IMO.

Also keep in mind that even if you get the biggest chassis you can and only buy preamp modules, you'll have spent quite a lot of money and still won't have as many inputs as you'd probably like for recording drums, so recording bands would probably involve compromises (unless you're content with using the preamps on your interface too, if you have enough extra ones).

I really want a 500 series setup, but I think they make a lot more sense for recording very small projects (just a few inputs) and utilizing outboard processors like Comp/EQ (either on the way in or for mixing/mastering by routing the tracks out of the interface and into the 500 module(s) and then back to the interface) rather than serving as the main front-end for a studio. If you want a lot of high quality inputs, it makes more sense to put your money towards a really high quality multi-channel preamp (especially one with an ADAT output if your interface doesn't allow you to bypass its preamps but has an ADAT input).

[fretless]

these things are great and it's a great way to get a killer rig in a small portable package but if you are only going to track one or 2 things then building a rack may be money better spent . For ex . one BAE 312 , a interface , a power strip a comp and eq this and that etc etc . there are also some killer desktop units such as the UA 610 or Great river . it would be cheaper assuming you don't need to fill a lunch box .

I am only recording myself right now, but I want to get to a point where I am recording full bands (for my buddies)... I think a 6 slot might be overkill, but it will give me room to grow.

Cole

Indeed it would . I feel the same way . I know if I can't make it happen it's not the gear . You can't put the blame on this stuff it's all up to you . It's actually one less thing to worry about.

[fretless]

yup that can of worms is not cheap to open . I use a Lynx audio AES 16 with Lavry 4496 w/ 6 x i/o's I also have a Behringer ultramatch 2496 which is excellent , vastly different price ranges but both sound fantastic if indeed they do have a sound at all ? PCI cards baby FTMFW

[colejustesen]

Thanks Mark for the information! I have a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 and I believe (could be wrong) but it only has 4 mic preamps and the other 4 inputs aren't connected to any preamp. I bought this interface with the thought that at some point of adding an external preamp to use into those 4 inputs. The research I did would lead me to believe that the additional inputs are not mic preamps. It also has the ADAT connectivity, so I was planning on getting something like the Focusrite OctoPre MkII Dynamic to add on an additional 8 mic pres to give me a total of 12 Focusrite mic preamp inputs. I can't honestly see in my future needing more than the inputs with that combination (Scarlett 18i8 + Focusrite OctoPre MkII Dynamic). ART also makes an ADAT tube mic preamp too that I could add on to my interface; that is the TubeOpto 8. I think it would be nice to have compression to use on each input, especially for drums! I know I could use VST plugins, but if I don't have to add extra load on the CPU, I am fine with that.

I do have an ART Pro MPA II being delivered that I intended on using in 2 of the 4 analog inputs on the back of my interface.

Thanks again for the great info guys! I wish there was a place around where I live, where I could go and be an apprentice to learn the tricks of the trade.

Cole

[Markdude]

Yeah, I did some research into the bigger Focusrite interfaces and found out from their website that even the 1/4" inputs with no gain knobs still are connected to some preamp circuitry even though they're not providing gain. The coloration is probably too subtle to matter, but it would probably still leave me always wondering "what if the signal was straight to the converter?" the whole time if I did that.

Preamps are much more of a weak link in interfaces than converters are these days though, so I definitely think good preamp with ADAT output + mid-level interface is the way to go for good quality and bang-for-the-buck. I've heard great things about the OctoPre so it sounds like it would be a great addition to expand the 18i8 (there are other awesome options with ADAT out too), so at that point, I'd probably just go with a 500 series for signal processing stuff (during mixing, unless the ADAT preamp you get has insert jacks...which is possible and really cool) rather than more preamps.

But I suppose if you wanted even more than 12 inputs (or just really didn't like the Focusrite's 4 preamps), you could get 4 500-series preamps and run them into the aforementioned line inputs on the 18i8 for a total of 16 inputs. But THAT would probably be overkill on the inputs...so once again I think that if you care about having more than a handful of inputs, it makes more sense to not turn to the 500-series for them (and load one up with Comp/EQ/etc instead if you still have money to burn).

But if you only need a handful of inputs (like for sessions just recording guitar/vocals/etc), then for sure, a tricked out 500 rack with a couple of preamps would be worthwhile there. The preamps are definitely great, I just wanted to make sure you knew that you wouldn't necessarily be gaining any inputs since the 500 chassis doesn't give you a digital output or anything like that, and you'd have to buy two sets of them to be able to load enough preamps to record drums with a modern miking arrangement...so it's a bit cost-prohibitive (and not actually very portable) compared to an interface and a single rackspace 8-channel preamp with a digital out.

Just wanted to make sure you knew about the connectivity situation if you were wanting a 500 unit for the purpose of expanding inputs. They're not really the most logical choice for wanting to expand inputs in a non-portable studio.

[gt_jumper]

Hi there Colejustesen,

the first thing i would grab in 500 series is a tracking comp and maybe a nice pre, I am loving the JLM LA500 lately for vocals and bass, and its a downright bargain for what they are asking for it.

[colejustesen]

Hi there Colejustesen,

the first thing i would grab in 500 series is a tracking comp and maybe a nice pre, I am loving the JLM LA500 lately for vocals and bass, and its a downright bargain for what they are asking for it.

Good to see you are posting here! I wondered if you migrated from HCAF.

Thanks for the suggestion, I opted to go for the ART Pro MPA II & VLA II pieces of hardware instead. I read tons of great things about both units and since the two of them together were cheaper than a 500 chassis and a module, I figured I would try them out first.

Cole

[gt_jumper]

Very cool, I havent used the ART VLA II yet, I hope to one day.

[tucsonsound]

I just jumped into the 500 series game due to Sweetwater's Aphex blow-out. Picked up the USB 500 Rack for $299.

Had contemplated getting a rack mount frame for future expansion but honestly having 8 empty slots to start would goad me into making extra purchases. The grab and go lunchbox format is cool itself, and having on-board conversion kinda pushed me over the edge.

I've got one Classic API 312 pre right now, so I'll be building a second one to give me 2 mic inputs for portable recording, along with the Aphex' stereo line in, stereo SPDIF I/O, stereo monitor out, dual headphone outs and MIDI I/O. Should be a nice little portable rig with the MacBook Pro.

Of course I'll still have two empty slots in this four spacer... and so it begins...

[BroSlinger]

I just jumped into the 500 series game due to Sweetwater's Aphex blow-out. Picked up the USB 500 Rack for $299.

Had contemplated getting a rack mount frame for future expansion but honestly having 8 empty slots to start would goad me into making extra purchases. The grab and go lunchbox format is cool itself, and having on-board conversion kinda pushed me over the edge.

I've got one Classic API 312 pre right now, so I'll be building a second one to give me 2 mic inputs for portable recording, along with the Aphex' stereo line in, stereo SPDIF I/O, stereo monitor out, dual headphone outs and MIDI I/O. Should be a nice little portable rig with the MacBook Pro.

Of course I'll still have two empty slots in this four spacer... and so it begins...

Dude, I've been seriously considering this.

[gt_jumper]

I Use the Xfilter for the 2buss, Its great!!

[fretless]

mmmm

[gt_jumper]

mmmm

Long time no see Sir! Have any piccies of your rack for use to....... peruse?

[Sex Panther]

Boy...wish I hadn't seen this.

I was looking into options for getting higher quality preamps into my DAW...this may be just the solution I needed!