So a buddy of mine tells me about a hum in Vietnam made transformers they are now using in "built" in UK Marshall's. Then I start seeing posts all over the web about this most recent finding and I'm sure some here will be cool with it. I sure wouldn't, but I don't really care as I wouldn't buy anything Marshall is currently putting out be it good or bad.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:54 pm
by GuitarBilly
Could be good since the Vietnamese DSL100H is better built than the older JCM2000.
An amp is a very basic device that can be built in a garage with basic tools and 50+ year old knowledge. It's no challenge for the manufacturing standards of any country.
Back in the 1900s the Asian stuff wasn't good, but these days it's not really a problem anymore.
I've gigged the DSL100H a lot. Over 200 shows in 10 different states in the past 5 years. I traveled around the country with it in a trailer. I had it in a trunk of a car for days under Vegas heat. I stored it in an outside storage room during the Northeast winter. No issues. In fact, it's been the most problem free amp I've owned. I've bought and sold Soldanos, Friedmans, Mesas, clones etc and the DSL is the one that stayed, because it's affordable, sounds great and it's been bulletproof.
I think a lot of this stuff is just prejudice pure and simple tbh. And obviously that's hard to argue against since it's not about the gear. The gear is fine. I tested it more extensively than most people would. There is no issue with Vietnamese Marshalls, aside from personal bias.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:57 pm
by greatmutah
Here’s the YouTube video that talks about it.
And here’s my thoughts. The Vietnam made transformers could be perfectly fine in most cases. May have had a bad one. It’s not uncommon for the UK amp makers to get parts from out of country even on their top line amps. And current Ceriatone amps use their own transformers which have gotten better with time (made in Malaysia too). It’s also not uncommon for amp manufacturers to switch transformer brands. They do it all the time. They just don’t publicize it because to them it’s not as big a deal.
The biggest problem is price, especially in the USA. Marshall’s current distributor has brought prices sky high stateside compared to UK and EU. Go on Thomann and look at the prices over there. With exchange rate it’s much cheaper than what we pay here. Part of that cost is freight to ship their amps over here but I highly doubt that’s all of it. The other part of the price point is that this is supposed to be a MIUK amp. One would assume that it should have period correct reproduction transformers and that’s most likely what they did here but not Dagnall in this case. So how much is made in UK and how much is actually just assembled in UK?
Insofar as the amp itself goes over here, Marshall has painted themselves into a corner with their current distribution model. Used 800s can still be had and while prices are up, they’re still at least $1K - $1500 less than a new one. So there’s that. If you have to have a brand new 2203, there’s more than enough builders stateside who will make one for you with top notch parts that can be less. You could try your hand at a Mojotone or similar 800 kit. There’s also Ceriatone builds which are fairly inexpensive too. And for the cost of the actual amp, you could get a Metropoulos, Friedman, Germino or any other type of Boutique Marshall style build. For me personally, I’m not really outraged by this because of the options above.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:58 pm
by TurboPablo
People are so ignorant.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 11:15 pm
by GuitarBilly
greatmutah wrote: The biggest problem is price, especially in the USA. Marshall’s current distributor has brought prices sky high stateside compared to UK and EU. Go on Thomann and look at the prices over there. With exchange rate it’s much cheaper than what we pay here. Part of that cost is freight to ship their amps over here but I highly doubt that’s all of it.
The US distribution is really a serious problem.
Hopefully that will get sorted out eventually. I understand import costs but other UK brands like Victory and Orange are much better priced than Marshall in the US. The USA distributor is really gouging prices here.
As for the video, he got a brand new amp that was defective. It happens regardless of where it's made. Just exchange it under warranty and move on. No need to go on a prejudice rant over it.
greatmutah wrote: The biggest problem is price, especially in the USA. Marshall’s current distributor has brought prices sky high stateside compared to UK and EU. Go on Thomann and look at the prices over there. With exchange rate it’s much cheaper than what we pay here. Part of that cost is freight to ship their amps over here but I highly doubt that’s all of it.
The US distribution is really a serious problem.
Hopefully that will get sorted out eventually. I understand import costs but other UK brands like Victory and Orange are much better priced than Marshall in the US. The USA distributor is really gouging prices here.
As for the video, he got a brand new amp that was defective. It happens regardless of where it's made. Just exchange it under warranty and move on. No need to go on a prejudice rant over it.
Yeah the rant is unnecessary. He can’t exactly exchange it as he’s doing a mod for a customer (Headfirst amplification) but yeah, not really needed. A bad PT can happen even with domestic made components. It happens. And it’s not really a good look for his business.
I had forgotten that all the top end Voxes are made in Vietnam anyway (including their handwired series). So it’s not like Asian manufacturing of transformers hasn’t been around (including the current DSL series as you mentioned and Ceriatone).
Ultimately Marshall is still a big business and their use of different components comes down to cost for them. Also bear in mind that Marshall constantly changed shit on their amps all the time without mentioning it. So did Fender. Everyone balked at Fender’s flagship amps being built in Mexico and that’s done well for them.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:45 am
by MacaroniSalad
If Marshall's North American distributor didn't crazy gouge this wouldn't be nearly as offensive. That being said, there are a million used Marshalls on the market, and no real reason to buy a new one. The Fender comp is a pretty good one, Marshall just needs to get their pricing in line.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:51 am
by greatmutah
MacaroniSalad wrote:If Marshall's North American distributor didn't crazy gouge this wouldn't be nearly as offensive. That being said, there are a million used Marshalls on the market, and no real reason to buy a new one. The Fender comp is a pretty good one, Marshall just needs to get their pricing in line.
Right? Correcting their pricing would help a lot. And Fender for their part is still selling amp, both under their brand and EVH. And they’re MIM. And some of these amps are considered the best amps Fender’s ever made, especially the 68 Custom series under their own brand.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:25 am
by GuitarBilly
greatmutah wrote: Yeah the rant is unnecessary. He can’t exactly exchange it as he’s doing a mod for a customer (Headfirst amplification) but yeah, not really needed. A bad PT can happen even with domestic made components. It happens. And it’s not really a good look for his business.
What's not really a good look for his business is not fully testing an amp before modding it. How's that not step one? He said it came straight from the store to his shop, it should have gone back to the store. Had he tested the amp before hacking into it, the customer could have exchanged it or fixed it under warranty. If I was the customer that would be my main issue with this. Voiding a warranty on a new amp without testing it first is just but somehow these garage modders are supposed to be the standard bearers of quality.
MacaroniSalad wrote:If Marshall's North American distributor didn't crazy gouge this wouldn't be nearly as offensive.
Yeah, again, that's the main problem. The 2203x is $1500 in Europe. Hardly a boutique amp.
The US price has a $2k mark up, and is putting that amp against amps that are much better made because they' should be in a different price category. I have about $1600 into the Mojotone 2203 clone (including the set up by Pete Cage). Doesn't make any sense at all to pay $3.5k for a 2203x.
What about a $1600 4x12 cab. Who even buys that? I never paid for than $500 for a Marshall 4x12.
But maybe they're doing US builders an unintended favor, because if people could buy new 2203s/1987/1959s here for $1500-1700 it would make it a lot more difficult to compete with them here.
That has nothing to do with Vietnam though. It's price gouging by American distributor to American customers. Totally a local problem. I wish Marshall would change distribution or rein them in and make them set better prices. Maybe the US market is not a big deal for them.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:30 am
by Devin
This is absolutely uproarious
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:33 am
by TurboPablo
Hasn't Nick at Ceriatone been spec'ing his transformers over there for a long time now? His amps sound great. So wouldn't that suggest that they're building good tstuff?
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:41 am
by ZEEGLER
A transformer is a very primitive device with no moving parts. Where it is made, and by whom is inconsequential. The only thing that really matters is that they are using quality materials, proper manufacturing techniques, and have adequate quality control. Marshall ain't stupid. It just wouldn't be in their best interest to use parts of questionable quality and reliability.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:29 pm
by Zozobra
Uproar seems to be overselling this somewhat.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:32 pm
by GuitarBilly
Zozobra wrote:Uproar seems to be overselling this somewhat.
16 pages on TGP
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:44 pm
by TurboPablo
GuitarBilly wrote:
Zozobra wrote:Uproar seems to be overselling this somewhat.
16 pages on TGP
I have a love/hate relationship with that forum. That falls on the hate side of the equation. Those guys get precious over everything.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:05 pm
by Zozobra
GuitarBilly wrote:
Zozobra wrote:Uproar seems to be overselling this somewhat.
16 pages on TGP
Between the diabetes and COPD can the average TGP'er work all the way up to an uproar?
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:28 pm
by greatmutah
Zozobra wrote:
GuitarBilly wrote:
Zozobra wrote:Uproar seems to be overselling this somewhat.
16 pages on TGP
Between the diabetes and COPD can the average TGP'er work all the way up to an uproar?
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:04 pm
by andvari7
TGP’s apoplexy doesn’t surprise me one bit. They pitched a bitch fit when I said my dream job was, in essence, The Righteous Gemstones.
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:35 pm
by greatmutah
andvari7 wrote:TGP’s apoplexy doesn’t surprise me one bit. They pitched a bitch fit when I said my dream job was, in essence, The Righteous Gemstones.
But don’t most of them play in P&W groups?
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:19 am
by linthat22
I wonder if we can capture the hum for the latest neural pack?
Re: Marshall Transformer uproar
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:24 am
by MacaroniSalad
greatmutah wrote:
andvari7 wrote:TGP’s apoplexy doesn’t surprise me one bit. They pitched a bitch fit when I said my dream job was, in essence, The Righteous Gemstones.
But don’t most of them play in P&W groups?
It hit too close to home. They didn't get to play Baby Billy's Bible Bonkers theme song
but somehow these garage modders are supposed to be the standard bearers of quality. 
